monssooon

It is sad that EU and USA are falling away from eachother. IMO we should try and stick together in these times. No doubt the US has financed a lot of things for te entire world and no doubt the European countries have put in a lot of effort too.

I don't think we should argue over it.

We have issues with privacy rights, elder burden, geopolitical turmoil, growing debt burden, environment and so on in all places we need to look forward and stick together...

It is a renewel of something highly unpopular that was voted down already. It is how the EU operates look at the other comments here about "democracy". It is put to vote on last minute where they know MEPs are on vacation... Well the ** should not go on vacation before the vacation starts but that is just another thing about EU! Why are they in vacation before it starts?! It is so complicated rules that not even the news and experts totally understand what is going on.

What do you mean by this?

I know MEPs are. But who ellected Ursula? Who as far as i understand is the mother of this survailance... Calling This orban/Putin propaganda is Low. It is removing focus from the fact that i point out democracy is slowly withering in EU and survaulance is growing. Just look at the survailance lad for cars that was accepted the other day. I have no love for either of Putin/orban im simply telling my experience not making propaganda!

To me as a European, this is not only about the dystopia that is becoming the tech survailance of society but it is a perfect example of what I feel the EU is. It is a disgusting dysfunctional institution that should have never been created in my opinion.

This is what we have... Unelected bureaucrats using every opportunistic tool they can to, in my opinion get rid of democracy. What are we fighting for at this point? Personally I have lost all faith in the EU and I'm embarrassed to be living here. I'm so disgusted by politicians and the obvious de-route of democracy.

What the ** are we doing...

EU is controling who gets to cover their meetings. If you have been critical in the past you are not welcome

Millions and millions of euro and dollars are being "talen" in white washimg scemes for organised crime ever year. It is a crime-business in it self.

I think the below comments answer rather well for me. But of course you are rigth that criminals use technology... I just don't see it as the main issue here.

I think that most common currency for criminals are still just cold cash... But maybe some use crypto yes. And maybe criminals use e2ee. And Marybe you are rigth that it is a problematic thing for law enforcement. That is not the point though.

The point is criminalizing ordinary people for something completely reasonable like wanting to have the ability to talk in private. And talk in private about what they think of the current leadership...

This is what I fear the most. It is gas lighting and just manipulation. The idea of privacy will become associated with crime.

Further down the line technical solutions that are private will become illegal and in general not being pro survailance will get you in trouble

The point was the conflict of interest. But yes what you said could maybe even make the conflict even more pronounced

I think the EU thinks that opposition to the EU must be from foreign actors. This is why citizens has to be surveiled so that the EU can catch the foreign actors or some goofy crap like that.

My point being that the opposition to the EU comes from EU citizens of the EU... Because the EU make stuff like chat control...

Or it could be we have fully crossed over into stasi territory already and they are having a great cozy party while they make life more and more unbearable for the population?!

Yeah I agree they will put people to prison for trying to get around chat control

Well put

Denmark is a world leading producer of windmills

I think Denmark is one of the most surveiled countries. And with the most compliant population. They call it trust... Denmark is not the fairytale they try to market them selves as. This is closer to their true color in my opinion. You could also try to look up the cases with former and current politicians in dk who actually have gotten caught perpetrating the very thing chat control is said to stop.

I'm to afraid of the f'ing EU to mention specific names here... But maybe some braver souls will

Agree. A while ago I met many normies who just complied. Now there is so much legislation that even the normies are starting to ask what is going on. But I guess that of exactly why they now need chat control! To get the herd back to work...

Chat control is about controlling peoples life's and minds. The really scary part is how many actually wants this and mindlessly buy into the narrative the EU put forth about why it is needed.

Also worth noting is that this was voted down earlier this year and if im not mistaken also a couple of years ago. But the legislators then just started a new slightly different bill and started nodging their population even harder, and tried again. And again.

The people said no to this.. But apparently that does not matter?! Is this still a democracy?

And are we criticizing totalitarian regimes for surveiling their people and not allowing free speech... And doing this to our own population? It seems so Bizar to me.

Personally I don't know what to do. I have come to the conclusion that fighting again this is impossible because, in my opinion, no one listens even after a democratic vote as I said already... I'm disgusted by what we have become...

They can land stuff on the moon... Generally they have world class engineers and production... Just from that point or view I don't see why not...

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing? Or are you discussing a semantic thing?

The idea I was referring to is that of the great reset.

I don't disagree that it is great that poor people can borrow things.

But it scares me that people see it as an ideal.

It is a symptom of acceptance of a poorer quality of life. It is fine that individuals pursue minimalism and so on but our next generation should not be forced to grow up in that mentality.

I agree. Even creating a mesh node could become an illegal act

It is fine in some cases. But what is at stake here is not identifying yourself in a couple of common sense situations.

It is enabling control infrastructure for governments whom are becoming increasingly undemocratic in a society where the elite gets more and more influence and where the middle class is becoming ruined.

Yes I fear this is true. It does not sound like progress ;(

I like your spirit :)

Haha stop already friend

This is much bigger than online privacy. It is about survailance and control of society. And possibly even a completely new society. Or a splitting of society into groups...

But to your point on anonymity. That has been protected in letter writing e.g. and also privacy has been considered a human right. Until now...

But maybe you have a point in saying that no temper tantrums are needed.

Isn't the entire idea that all sites and use of the internet should be tied to your real identity. Of not publicly displayed then at least verifiable by the state

Unfortunately I think most normies is thinking like this. And buy into the idea that we must all give up what we have so far considered freedom ideals because the bad guys will get us if we don't.

In my opinion this is just blind compliance and misunderstood trust in a system which is changing rapidly.

People that came before us have fought hard for these rights and if I'm not mistaken the us was founded on these rights.

I'm not saying that we should allow criminals to take over and I know crime is rampage but if we give up our liberties, what are we then fighting for.

I think the ideas the leaders are proposing have been shown not to work in history. Like east Germany and Similar...

I second this. Get off the net and away from the established society and into the parallel ones

I think it is going to be the time to get off the internet in general, as much as possible