mickeyM

Yeah, at this point I'll be careful about everything I sign & do, not only with this startup but with any I'd potentially join in the future

That's right, but I remember that Jim really wanted to have his name on that contract which I've accepted at that time since he was the one coming up with the money for development

Great take, thanks!

The contract with developers states that Jim will own the finished product. My role in the app development was to make the initial sketches & app flow (both in the beginning and during the development), some design stuff, and Android testing, so I guess it can be argued that Jim doesn't own 100% of the current app because I've contributed something to the development as well

That's true, I've definitely learned a lot, I guess during my time with the company I was able to cover a lot of curriculum on various topics :)

It would just feel bad to me to walk away for free from something I was working on that can be tomorrow sold for couple (tens of)thousands (the value doesn't really matter in this case) for free

Thanks a lot. I think regarding the IP it's very messy and questionable who owns how much, because he may have paid for the development, but it was based on by sketches & app flow, and I've contributed to the development with a lot of testing & design stuff. Even if he wanted to take his chances, Jim would be in a worse position than me since it would be pretty unclear what I'm entitled to & that could be toxic for investors or in case he wanted to sell it right away.

We have a meeting scheduled for tomorrow, I'd stand my ground as you've and others suggested and we'll see what happens. If it gets really messy maybe I'd think about bringing on a lawyer, but it would have to be certain that I'm not going to lose money because of that since lawyers... well, aren't cheap

Thanks for sharing your experience - that sounds pretty bad, I hope you work it out somehow. I think the vesting schedules should be talked about more especially among starting entrepreneurs so they can prevent situations like ours.

If you are comfortable sharing it - what is the reason the guy leaving the company doesn't want to negotiate something with you? Does he want to retain his full equity?

Right, thanks!

Thank you. They won't rework the app until they make some money off it first, so for the time being they would pretty much leave it as is. Since the freelance programmers (unknowingly) took very little money, the real value of the source code could potentially be a few tens of thousands. Even if it was just the $11.000, there is a value just in the source code

Good point. It's definitely something I'll consider. I guess in case I retain some equity, it would be sort of an agreement that I'll receive XY % in case the company is sold, so technically I wouldn't have a stake in the company & be responsible for the tax stuff

:) Thanks, sounds good!

Yeah, there was no such agreement

Thank you. We're not from the "better" European countries, so I'm not sure whether my work would have that much value. Maybe it would, but Jim would NEVER pay that kind of money. In that case I would most likely end up with some equity and nice bill from a lawyer, which isn't something I can afford right now.

Yeah, that's also one of the reasons for walking away, better to get it over with now

I guess you mean I'd own 40%. Agree with the fuzzy part

Thank you, good point. I'll try to get as much upfront as possible

Thanks! I don't have money now to afford a lawyer, and even if I did, it's possible that I'd pay more for a lawyer than potentially get in cash or equity

Jim would never leave me the company and frankly, I have no interest to stay even without him

Thanks a lot! To address one of your points:

> Who is listing as hiring them on the contract, the company or Jim?

Jim is the one. People around here suggested though that it doesn't really matter because for example I've contributed something to the app as well (sketches, app flow, design, etc.) and the app was clearly made for the purposes of the company

Thanks a lot, great tips :) That's very reasonable, I'd gladly agree to that.

Yeah, Jim buying me out would be a preferable option now

Yeah, I'm currently 20 and Jim is over 30. That is one of the reasons I've decided to leave - I don't want this to sound cocky or something - but it was apparent that I'm more capable than Jim, or to put it other way Jim doesn't really have an idea what he's doing. I was able to discourage him from some crazy things he wanted to do along the way, but after some time I realized that it's leading nowhere.

I guess the turning point was when we were talking to a journalist and he asked us what are our KPIs (key performance indicators). Jim had no idea what that is, so he just told him some nonsense - I had to step in to make it clear. I just don't want to imagine the embarassment if we were sitting with investors instead

Yeah, after some comments from others I've realized that Jim doesn't really own all of the code/app. I guess that would be what I would do if he just starts a new company - wait and see what happens and if they get somewhere, I can go after them as you've mentioned. Thank you!

Yeah, after some comments and thinking I think the walk away money would be more reasonable to go for than the equity. Thank you!

Wow, I didn't know such thing happened to Microsoft too :) Always it's only Gates who gets the spotlight.

Yeah, toxik also pointed to the fact I co-own the code (app), although from a different perspective. Thanks a lot!

Wow, thanks a lot! I'm not sure how our country's law would look at this argument, I think it will be unclear and depend on the judge's decision, but it's definitely something that could bring Jim to senses - after all, he's got more to lose than I do. Thanks again!

Nope, Jim can only sell his equity (60%) - in other words, he has no right to sell my equity without my agreement

I understand. I hope your health issues are resolved now.

The funny thing is that the only way it would make sense for Jim to sell the company in a month is when I leave. Otherwise it doesn't in such time frame.

Yeah, we have a company together that operates the app, but as I've mentioned before it's unclear whether Jim couldn't simply establish a new company and operate the app under it (since the app development itself was paid for by Jim + has a contract about it stating that he's the one requesting the development)

Well, the type of company we have isn't suited for startups or companies with a similar structure, so there's nothing he can do about the equity without my agreement.

Thanks!

True, I hope to it done as soon as possible

Thanks a lot - that list looks kind of scary :) I'll definitely keep that stuff on mind. Yeah, now I see that it'd be really best to try to negotiate a walk away fee