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maxsilver

5,914 karma · joined January 10, 2011

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maxsilver··on Against Discord Channels
The "gaming classic" meaning of "server" is a dedicated hosted instance of a software. It's from late-90s/early-2000s era LAN party lingo, stuff like, "let's get a game of Quake going, start up a server" or similar.

A single "server" (one physical computing machine) could have hundreds of "servers" (instances of the server-side of the game software) running on it. One physical tower PC could have "10 Quake Servers", "2 HL2-DM servers", "a Team Fortress 2 server", "a Unreal Tournament server" and such on it.

Discord originally seemed to be using that era of lan-party style language for it's naming conventions. A Discord "server" is just an instanced section of the server-side of the Discord software, and not specifically related to any real-world physical machine.

maxsilver··on Our self imposed scarcity of nice places
> If instead of requiring people to pay for the perpetual right to occupy and exclude others, you allow them to pay for that right for only one year or one month at a time, well, that’s what renting already is.

No, that's what property taxes are -- and they're already paid out little bits at a time. (Here, twice yearly). Rent vs buy has nothing to do with the "right to occupy", the taxes do, and renters and owners both pay their property taxes in full (renters taxes are rolled up into their monthly rent, but same thing).

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Every benefit a landlord offers is a lie -- it's a benefit the renter setup, and the landlord is stealing credit for. A landlord does not "maintain" any property (the renter does, the renter pays money that gets spent on a property management service that does the work). A landlord does not pay any taxes for the land (the renter does, through monthly rents). A landlord did not build the structure on the property (a construction firm did, using money exclusively paid for by current and future renters). A landlord does not protect the property from risk or damage (the homeowners insurance / property insurance company does that, paid for entirely from monthly rents from the renter tenant).

You could potentially argue that the landlord is a bank, a form of financing to get money upfront and paid back later -- except they don't do that either, the Federal Government does that through a mortgage that the landlord just gets to hold for no reason, so the landlord usually isn't even risking any finances there either. A default doesn't leave a landlord high-and-dry, it leaves the general public (through the Federal Government) holding the bag.

The landlord doesn't even take on any opportunity cost risk in the US, because the US soft-mandates (though fiscal policy) that property values continuously rise on average, and passes this cost on to citizens. So, even if hypothetically all renters abandon the property in a few years, the landlord will be able to 'cash out' (sell) the property, nearly always for more than they paid for it (using appreciation paid for by past renters).

A landlords choice is literally "do I do nothing and get free money forever for no labour" or "do I cash out now, and dump the money into some other place, for the chance at more free money for no labour". That's the only "opportunity cost" they ever have to weigh.

The landlord *literally* *does* *nothing*, they provide *literally* *zero* value. They exist solely to skim money from people. It's a political choice to let these people exist and take the bulk of earned value from a given area, not some kind of need-based response to anything.

maxsilver··on Our self imposed scarcity of nice places
I don't know where "in perpetuity" comes from. Nothing stops you from selling your small apartment condo later or whatever.

But yeah, generally speaking, adults should be able to own their buy and own their own housing, and be able to reside there as long as they choose to. For the same reasons we expect people to be able to own their own coats and shoes and laptops and such, and hold on to it as long as they are alive. And if people change jobs or move to a new city or start a family or whatever, they sell their old one and buy the new one.

maxsilver··on Our self imposed scarcity of nice places
> Presumably the people renting the housing would have bought it themselves if they had the financial resources to do so

It's actually quite the opposite. By literal definition, every renter that's paying their rent can already afford the housing they currently occupy, because every renter is already paying for (their entire unit) as well as (all cost of maintenance) and (some extra profit for the landlord)

So by definition, every renter is always already paying more than it would cost to own, operate, and maintain their unit. Every renter on the planet (who isn't like, behind on rent) has already proven they have the financial resources to own their unit.

> So what would they do without a landlord?

Save money every month. (By the exact amount of profit the landlord currently makes).

maxsilver··on Our self imposed scarcity of nice places
> The main service landlords provide is maintenance.

Is that how it works in Europe? In Michigan, landlords mostly exist to prevent maintenance, and extract money.

maxsilver··on Zillow to stop flipping homes, loses more than $550M, lays off 25% of staff
> Nothing wrong with that.

Zillow was literally scalping housing, a basic human need that all people must buy. That's generally considered very immoral by most reasonable people. And they didn't just do it once or twice, they did it at ridiculous scale (tens of thousands of homes sold last quarter, was a sale to a scalper to artificially drive up all housing prices).

Most reasonable people would consider this behaviour to be evil (like, comic-book-villain level evil). Even scalping a optional-only luxury item like concert tickets or whatever is already considered unethical by most folks.

maxsilver··on Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube
> And I don't know what you're talking about with Play Movies and TV. It's still there.

Google Play Movies and TV was shutdown earlier this year to be replaced (sort of) with YouTube TV -- the same "YouTube TV" in the article above.

https://twitter.com/liliputingnews/status/138170402082645197...

https://www.androidauthority.com/google-play-movies-shutdown...

The shutdown of Google Play Movies and TV and the stuffing of parts of that system into "YouTube TV", is sort of the original catalyst for how Roku and YouTube TV got into this fight in the first place.

maxsilver··on Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube
It's doubly weird, because YouTube TV is literally just a side project -- There's at least a 50% chance Google just totally shuts down YouTube TV within the next five years. (Like they already did with Google Play Music, and Google Play Movies + TV once before).

Google's going to war with Roku over something that Google doesn't care about at all (it's one minor ancillary line of business to them), but is Roku's main and only meaningful line of business.

If you want to be locked into a single vendor, you can already buy Google TV from Sony or TCL (where this vendor-lock-in is guaranteed). The whole point of Roku is that it's independent, it's not operated by any one streaming/media service, it's not a "Google TV" or an "Apple TV" or a "PlayStation TV" or whatever.

Roku has to fight this, tooth-and-nail, or all other services on the Roku platform will demand the same, and totally destroy the entire Roku product lineup.

maxsilver··on The race to grab all the UK’s lithium before it’s too late
We don't really need all of that for cars either. We could build 5 or 6 Chevy Volts with the same battery capacity as a single Tesla, and each of those Volts (with daily charging) would still almost never need to burn gas. (I'm the second owner of my Chevy Volt, with 60,000k miles on it, it has a real-world car-recorded all-lifetime average of 181 MPG).

We're building every EV car to handle every possible EV-only road trip because we can and because it's cool, not because it's actually necessary. We could still eliminate 90%+ of all road emissions instantly with just PHEV's using much smaller batteries, if some sort of lithium shortage made such a thing necessary.

maxsilver··on Gitlab from YC to IPO
Just one user here, but I definitely prefer GitLab over GitHub.

Not because GitHub is bad in any particular way, I just like the feature set and UI of GitLab better. Less of a "Hyundai vs Mercedes" thing, and more of a "Ford vs Chevy" thing.

They're both decent and they both have approximately the same level of "premium-ness". They're just feature-wise and aesthetically slightly different in arbitrary ways. And some people either do or don't vibe better with the one or the other.

maxsilver··on Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account
> iPhones and iPads are a platform, just like the PlayStation, Xbox, or Nintendo Switch etc.

Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point. : Folks are thinking of Apple like it's just a video game console, when the more apt comparison is Comcast or AT&T.

maxsilver··on Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account
The problem with this logic, is that Apple isn't really a "business" in this case. Epic and Apple aren't really "business partners". Apple is an unregulated privately-owned quasi-government entity with none of the responsibilities or checks on authority that a real government has.

You can sue the Post Office, lose your case, and know they can't retaliate by stealing all your mail forever. You can sue the Department of Labour, lose a case, and still have the right to hire employees in the future. You can sue the Fire Department, lose a case, and still reasonably trust they won't burn down your house. You can sue your local Power Company, lose your case, and still trust that they can't unilaterally ban you from ever buying Electricity again.

But you can't ever sue Apple, over anything, ever, no matter how evil Apple is, no matter how heinous Apple's activity may be. Because no matter how valid or correct your complain is, no matter what happens, they'll just black-bag your entire digital existence in retaliation.

Apple is acting like a Government, Apple is ruling like a Government, but Apple has none of the oversight or accountability we'd demand from any reasonable Government.

Folks are thinking of Apple like it's just a video game console, when the more apt comparison is Comcast or AT&T. Apple shouldn't be allowed to control what does or does not live in the App Store, for the same reason that Comcast shouldn't even be allowed to decide what websites or services you do/don't use.

maxsilver··on Home Price to Income Ratio
Because it doesn't actually work. It helps a tiny little bit, in the places that are actually somewhat constrained (like SF/BayArea specifically). But it's not any kind of significant fix. Housing is an investment asset for stock market folks, it doesn't follow a Econ-101 understanding of "supply" and "demand" in any meaningful way.

The Midwest and the South are both way ahead of California on the whole "just build more housing" thing, for example, and have been for many years. And yeah, it makes us somewhat cheaper than a coastal city if you have California dollars to burn. But our Price-to-Income-Ratio's are still in the high 5-7+ range too, just like everywhere else.

We have basically zero population growth, and every single stray piece of land is getting built on right now (record high construction, record high new housing starts, for the past three years straight) and housing prices still rise 10% to 15% every single year like clockwork, with no end in sight.

"Just build more" sounds really pretty, but that alone will never get housing prices back down to a real-world-affordable figure for most people.

maxsilver··on The reason employees aren't returning to work in America [video]
>It’s not a fair market when people are avoiding those jobs because they can get paid for not working

This is not a real thing, this is a fake assertion you have invented in your mind. No one is getting paid to "not work". And no, workers who have lost their job, collecting their unemployment they earned during past labour, never counts as getting "paid to not work".

>Once the government spending stops, things will change quickly.

In most places, the paltry, tiny financial aid for workers ended months ago, and nothing has changed at all.

> For instance here our dog daycare can’t hire enough employees

They should consider paying wages. If they paid money for labor, they'd get labour. It's really that simple.

What most "employers" actually want is nearly slave labour, volunteers, like they had pre pandemic. Employers swear up and down that no one wants to work, and then you find out they pay just $15/hr or some other insultingly low slave-like wage (a wage so low that no human could feasibly live alone off of it, much less advance in any way in their life).

A single adult with no debt, and no dependents, in Michigan, "making" $15/hr doesn't even take home enough money to rent a modest 1-bed apartment in the city, much less eat or do anything else with their life. At this wage, the adult is literally poorer every day they show up to work, they are literally donating their labour to a for-profit company. And most people are not "perfect ideal adults", they have children, or student loans, or elderly parents, or a tricky medical condition, or any other totally-normal totally-reasonable life complication that they need money to help cover, so they can show up to do good work for you.

I don't know your local market, but I guarantee if your dog daycare was in Michigan and it started paying $25/hr, they'd fill those positions in just a few days. Their employee "shortage" is a fake problem they have intentionally created for themselves, not some sort of indicator of people's willingness to work.

---

Everyone wants to work right now. No one is hiring at a liveable wage. Most reasonable people are not going to get out of bed and go to work all day, just to end the day poorer then they started. That would be insane. But that insanity is what every company seems to demand of labour these days.

maxsilver··on Chery QQ Ice Cream goes on sale in China – a modern electric car for $4,600
> why can't we have that over here?" (snip) We need the "Costco car" you speak of!

We already have them. A "Costco Car" built to meet all minimum US safety standards is how you get stuff like the 2021 Chevy Spark (retail out-the-door price of about $14,000 brand new - https://www.chevrolet.com/cars/spark . It's cheap enough that a working fresh graduate could buy one brand new, off-the-lot. (approx $240/month or so on a 60 month loan)

Most people don't like "Costco Cars". Stuff like the Chevy Spark, or Mitsubishi Mirage, or the Nissan Versa -- they generally aren't as comfortable in seats or interior trim or interior features, they aren't as fun to drive, they tend to be louder and lighter which can make them feel unsafe (even though they aren't), they aren't very big or roomy, they generally won't impress anybody, etc.

But you can buy a "Costco Car" from any Chevy dealership anywhere in the US today, if you really want one.

maxsilver··on Chery QQ Ice Cream goes on sale in China – a modern electric car for $4,600
I don't know what you are expecting. A 200k mile car that lasted ten years before an accident is something I would consider as "well built".

How many miles do you drive each year? What kind of car did you expect to get, and how many miles+years would you expect it to operate at to be considered "well built".

maxsilver··on Rent control isn’t working in Sweden
> Rent control directly (or undirectly, depending on your views) decreases the supply of rentable units

But it doesn't. Rent control never takes away any supply. Even if rent control were fully abolished, that same person would still need the same amount of housing (presumably even in the same unit). From a "supply" perspective, it's literally a 1 to 1 -- no change in unit counts, up or down, in any way.

Rent control has no influence over "supply" (unless you are secretly hoping to force a lot of humans into homelessness or something). Rent control only determines how much a person is forced to pay to keep their own housing (housing already built, and that they already occupy) consistent.

> Your seatbelt analogy implies that anybody, at any time, can obtain rent control.

Correct, and that's absolutely true. Generally speaking, legislators could pass a law today to give everybody and anybody rent control (at either the municipal / county / state or federal level). It's literally just a pen stroke away.

There was a time when seatbelts weren't law, and it was harder to obtain them. We recognized how unequal of a situation that would make things, and thus mandated through regulations via law that all cars have them. (Just as right now, it's really unequal for some people to have rent control, but others don't).

Generally, every argument against Rent Control, is really an argument about how it sucks that they don't get rent control themselves. The problem is not rent control, the problem is a lack of enough rent control. If rent control was universal (applied to 100% of rental units) then most of the perceived problems with it would vanish overnight.

> If I take 10% of the seats and allow people to reserve them for personal use indefinitely

That's not an better analogy, it's a unfair one. Rent control does not give people the ability to reserve lots of housing units indefinitely, and rent control doesn't actually distribute or redistribute anything. It lets households pay for one (1) unit at real-world rates (which is exactly the same amount of housing they'd still need and use without any rent control, except that household would suddenly have to give a bunch of extra money away for literally no reason).

maxsilver··on Rent control isn’t working in Sweden
> I don't think it's crazy to say that rent control helps those in it and hurts those that aren't in it.

Hard disagree, it's crazy to claim that rent control hurts affordability. Rent control does not "hurt" anyone not in it. The lack of humane regulation on housing is hurting those people, and rent control is just getting slandered in the cross fire. What most people interpret as "rent control causing" is in reality "the lack of enough rent control causing".

It's like looking at a car crash, and saying "see, seat belts didn't protect the non-wearers, those seat belts just selfishly protected only their own wearer, and even created more empty space for the non-belted to get extra physical damage. Seat belts hurt all those not belted, the policy itself of offering seatbelts 'causes' damage to others."

maxsilver··on Rent control isn’t working in Sweden
> Everything you mentioned "has" to work, day in and out.

Agreed, but this is true of housing as well. Housing "has to" work, or you end up with a huge commuting and homeless population (and the state of being homeless is effectively a crime in the US).

> In fact, it's a perverse incentive: the locals love the lower rent, and there is no one to vote out the politicians that like rent controls.

It's not perverse, it's a good incentive. Locals love lower rent from rent control, so the commuters who don't have it should be incentivized to also vote for rent control, and it's a great idea that should continue to spread. In a ideal world, every rental unit in the nation would be under a strict rent control (just like how power/water/sewer/natgas often is).

maxsilver··on Rent control isn’t working in Sweden
> At a cost to everyone else.

It doesn't. There is no cost to anyone else, unless you believe all purchases of all products automatically hurt someone else (since every purchase you make technically reduces overall supply by the amount you purchased)

maxsilver··on Rent control isn’t working in Sweden
> Price ceilings, like rent control, cause a shortage of supply

They don't have to. We've had price ceilings in the US in many places for over 60+ years without ever experiencing a shortage. (In my hometown, for example, education is price-capped, electricity is price-capped, water + sewer are price-capped, natural gas is price-capped. No shortages since the 1950s).

You just have to require reasonable regulations on the industry, and strictly enforce those regulations. Heavy Regulations + Price Ceilings is the magic combo for success, more or less.

maxsilver··on Rent control isn’t working in Sweden
> every economist agrees doesn’t work?

Yes, but "doesn't work" is a bit of a loaded term. Economists agree that rent control is not the most profitable way to price housing, but since the whole point of rent control is to prevent aggressive profit-seeking in housing, economists "agreeing it doesn't work" is intentionally the goal.

Rent controls job is not to make more housing (it has no control over that). Rent control's job is not to make housing cheaper (it has no control over that). Rent controls only job is to provide housing security for existing renters, and the vast majority of the time, it's successful at doing that.

If you also want cheaper housing overall, your supposed to pair rent control with a matching set of changes for non-rent-protected residents (like say, pair it with new construction of additional public-owned public-operated housing).

maxsilver··on Pacaso is turning houses into corporations
> Because we live in the dumbest timeline, because they claim to be a tech company and not a timeshare company, this means they are now worth a billion dollars.

Well, we let the taxi service pretend to be not-a-taxi, and get away with it. We let the hotel service pretend to be not-a-hotel, and get away with it.

Since no one is enforcing any reasonable rule of law, it's only a matter of time until 100% of all businesses follow suit. "We're not a hospital, we're a healthcare sharing service". "We're not a restaurant, we're a meal sharing experience". etc.

maxsilver··on Please, stop forcing a dark theme on a web-site visitors
> This is one of the examples of absence of empathy

Isn't this an example of an abundance of empathy? If the user has requested dark-mode, websites responding with their best version of a dark-mode experience is an example of user empathy in action.

I operate in dark-mode 24/7 myself, and I've been pleasantly surprised at websites slowly supporting a dark-mode experience and automatically showing that by default.

There should probably be a one-click "override dark/light mode on this site" button somewhere, so that you don't have to dig into your OS to change it back. But the defaults here seem like the most reasonable, most user-respecting thing that could possibly exist.

maxsilver··on We’d rather have the iceberg than the ship
> How/why do you not promote the growth of denser, middle class inner city neighborhoods with a diverse profile? Is there a positive reason to not encourage it?

They do promote it. Every city in the US is promoting inner-city neighborhood development (commonly called "gentrification" here). It's just not usually a great for actual citizens.

Dense construction is always more expensive, so anytime density goes up, your immediately paying a lot more money for a lot less housing. And property in the US is valued exclusively by it's density (what realtors will call "location, location, location", but really just means "how much stuff is around it -- how dense is the area"). Living near density (even if your own property is not dense) always costs a lot more money, which means your again paying a lot more cash for a lot less housing. Alternative public transit options are poor in most places, but simultaneously, most inner-cities are actively hostile to our current universal public transit (cars), so the closer you live to the center of town, the harder it will be for you as a resident to get anywhere regularly, and you'll be transportation-disadvantaged compared to any of your friends in the suburbs. And because it's more expensive to live there, the taxes there are almost always much higher (since the tax you pay is based in large part on the value of your home, and houses near the city cost more, so you also get to pay more in taxes).

And, since families generally don't have lots of money to spend, they are in the same boat as you, and almost entirely pick suburbs (to save lots of cash and get better transport), so their kids all enroll in schools out there, so the quality of the schools out there is a lot higher, which makes future families more likely to make the same decision.

And if you have anything "tricky" happen to you (perhaps a elderly family member needs support, or you get divorced, or your kid becomes disabled, or similar), any and all of the assistance you might want or need to help deal with that, is also easier to get out in the suburbs. And since your cost of living is lower out there, if you need extra cash to handle a problem, it's easier to financially float that in the suburbs.

The model is crazy, but it's not crazy at the person-level. It's mostly crazy at the federal level. The government could let properties actually depreciate, so that renovating old properties inside the city is cheaper than building new out in the suburbs. But that would require them to let property values fall in urban areas so that housing can become affordable, and cities as well as all rich people are always 100% against that idea. So instead, federal policies prop up artificially high property values in urban areas, with the net effect being a semi-explicit policy that cities are not for most people. The goal is that anyone not single/20-something/wealthy, should not ever actually live there, and these policies are mostly successful at doing that.

> If local taxes were done at a uniform rate statewide, would it help

Probably not. The problem with local taxes is not usually that the rate is much higher, it's that the cost of living in a city is much higher, so your property itself costs way more, and that means you pay way more in taxes (even if the rate were hypothetically exactly identical in both, you'd still be paying way more in taxes city-vs-suburbs, because urban housing tends to cost way more to buy, and the taxes you pay are based on the sale price of the property itself)

> Building standards which means construction of "depreciation homes" is not viable

This is a good idea, but it would actually help the suburban sprawl far more than it would help the city (since lower density is more affordable), it would encourage people to stay in suburban sprawl longer, since those properties would still always be cheaper, but now (under this new rule) would also would be better built and last longer.

maxsilver··on The Amazon 'Personal Games' Policy
> There's an implied contract that when you work for someone you don't also work against them.

But working on something else is not "work against"? What does "work against them" mean to you?

If you work an 8 hour shift at McDonalds, and then another 8 hour shift at Burger King, have you "worked against" McDonalds?

> Because Amazon sells video game software, if you decide to work for them, you should not be in the business of making or selling video game software.

But that definition is so expansive, that no one would ever be allowed to work on anything ever again. It's impossible for anyone to build a career in anything, under a definition this broad.

If you punch a clock for Amazon, does that mean you can't work in any warehouse (because they do that), you can't work in software (because they do that), you can't work in any sort of retailer or grocery store (because they do that), you can't work in any TV or Movie production (because they do that), you can't work in gaming (they do that too), you can't work in any datacenter (they do that too), you can't work in the music industry (they do that), you can't work in book publishing (they do that), you can't work in home devices / IOT (they do that too), you can't work for UPS or FedEx (because they run their own delivery service), you can't be a pharmacist (they do that now), you can't even be a plumber or electrician (Amazon technically does that now too) and so on.

maxsilver··on Why North America's killer heat scares me
> In some places there is tendency to still mandate homes to be heat traps to save energy, which could also lead to really bad outcomes in very hot conditions.

Agree, but I mean, that's probably good too though. If you don't insulate homes well, they waste more energy (and emit more CO2) on all the days they aren't under an insane heat wave. And if you are Air Conditioning a house, that same insulation helps keep the place cool.

Even places that "never get cold" and therefore "don't need it", should still be reasonably well insulated both ways anyway. See the Texas Cold Snap earlier this year, and all the damage that caused (even though that weather would cause zero issues in Michigan). See the recent extreme heat wave in Seattle + Portland tearing apart roads and such (even though that weather would cause zero issues in Arizona).

Homes probably need both to be well built. They need to be able to heat trap and to quickly/efficiently cool + ventilate.

And in general, the concept of "building to match local climate" is probably going to have to be a relic of the past. There is starting to be no such thing as predictable local climates anymore. If you want something to last, it's going to have to be built as if it could get anyone's weather at a moments notice.

maxsilver··on Ketchum, Idaho, Has Plenty of Available Jobs, but Workers Can’t Afford Housing
> if we so often hear about how corporations have the money to pay more, and they’re simply using it to line corporate pockets, wouldn’t they rather pay a livable wage to employees over shutting down restaurants, businesses, etc. entirely?

If they were perfectly rational actors, sure. But businesses and corporations aren't real, they're fake entities that exist just to shield owners from liability. The actual owners of these things are humans, with human emotions just like any other person.

What we're seeing is owners getting angry, and refusing to pay fair wages despite the fact that it makes them less profitable to be upset like this. Depending on how they choose to vent their anger, it is sometimes labeled as a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_strike

> how is it that only now employees are realizing they can make more money from unemployment than working

They aren't -- employees aren't making more money from unemployment than working. They're just realizing "working" isn't really working (it costs more money to go to work, than most of these companies will pay them back in wages). You could eliminate all unemployment entirely, this situation would not change at all.

> Was it just the absurd amounts of money being pumped from stimulus checks?

No. The stimulus checks had tiny, paltry amounts of cash, and also ended months ago. Some unemployment benefits existed for longer, but they are also running out (or already have, depending on your state). Either way, the situation won't change at all when that ends, because the problem has nothing to do with outside checks.

The problem is that in many places in the US, it costs workers more money to show up to work, than they earn from doing that days work.

Why would you go punch a clock at Taco Bell, if you ended up poorer every day for working? If after a hard days work, you had less money on you than you did the day before? You wouldn't, no rational person would do this. But that's the actual reality in much of the US today, which is why a lot of people simply aren't doing these jobs anymore.

If Taco Bell pays you $14/hr, but it costs you $20/hr just to be able to show up to work at all (that's a realistic number in many cities today), then you lose $6/hr for every hour you work. You are, effectively, donating money to a for-profit corporation. Most rational folks aren't going to be happy to do that, so they aren't taking those "jobs" anymore.

maxsilver··on Ketchum, Idaho, Has Plenty of Available Jobs, but Workers Can’t Afford Housing
> The expensive places that are dense also have lots of high-paying jobs,

Yes, this is true of some of the places, but definitely not all of them. Just look at most of the Midwest for an abundance of density-driven explosion in cost-of-living, but without any abundance of "high-paying jobs" to match.

I get that most of Hacker News is experienced with major cities (NYC, Boston, DC, Phily, SF, LA, Seattle, Portland, etc). And so it's tempting to tie housing costs to the specifics of that cities economy. But that's not the scary part. The scary part is looking at cities with "boring"/"normal" economies, and seeing the exact same thing happening to CoL over there.

Seattle can at least point to Amazon and say, "see, look, any random fresh grad can be making over $120k/yr at Amazon HQ!" to justify their insane housing prices. Indianapolis, Cincinatti, Louisville, and many more are increasingly getting up to similar prices, without any similar wages to justify it.

This article, for example, is about Ketchum Idaho. The person interviewed works two jobs to make $60k/yr and still can't find housing, because (according to Zillow, anyway) today's average sale price is over half-a-million dollars each!. Surely, Ketchum did not suddenly get an abundance of "high-paying jobs" to justify these prices. And Ketchum's total population has been basically flat for 20 years now, and today's estimate is still lower than their peak population from the year 2000, so there's no magic huge influx of new residents to point to to justify the prices either.

maxsilver··on Ketchum, Idaho, Has Plenty of Available Jobs, but Workers Can’t Afford Housing
The problem is that American housing prices have very little to do with actual supply and demand, but are valued almost-exclusively by their proximity to density. (i.e, "location"). The density is the solution to the physics problem, but that same density is simultaneously the root cause of the cost problem. Americans can't just build empty cities and have people move into them, until America stops financially punishing people for moving into those buildings.

It's not a "woke fear" of gentrification. It's simple fact-of-life stuff. Most Americans are either poor, or are one-or-two minor mistakes away from becoming poor (the so-called 'middle class'). Regardless of whether they own or rent, they all rightfully fear the explosion in cost of living, and are doing anything they can to get the gross financialization of living away from their own lives.

And, as most policy exists in the US today, if you increase density anywhere in the US, all housing nearby instantly becomes more expensive (regardless of whether wages are rising or falling, regardless of whether the population is growing or shrinking, regardless of any actual human behaviour elsewhere). People, rightfully, are scared shitless this will happen to them.

And they can't directly fight it, because it's literally federal policy -- comparables are how all mortgages are underwritten, and comparables don't care who actually did what, and are trivial to game.

Oh, this building has rents that are completely unsustainable for the local population? Who cares, they're on the market, so they're part of the "market rate" now. Oh, some rich guy got mad that Americans got a trivial amount of emergency cash during the pandemic, and is now ranting about "Fiat Currencies" and "Hyper-inflation", so decided to convert his spare cash into property to sit on it? Guess Mom and Pop now have to compete against him when home shopping, that's "just the way things are". Oh, this building got purchased at 3x what it's actually worth, because an investment firm panicked over getting caught shorting GameStop stock earlier this year and has nowhere better to park it's spare cash with zero risk? Comparables don't give a shit, every real human has higher rents and higher housing prices, just to make those specific people happy.

In a neoliberal Econ-101-only world view, all that mess "counts as demand" and must be "serviced by supply", just as if they were all real people needing a real place to live.

So, someone who has only taken Econ 101, thinks the fix is always as simple as "build baby build, it's just supply and demand, duh". They usually get their way (in every place that's not SF/BayArea), and then they wonder incredulously why all the real people left and no one can afford to live there anymore.

"I don't understand why people making $36k/yr won't pay $2k/month for our studio micro-apartments. I guess we just didn't gentrify enough. We'll just keep ramping up the gentrification, because that's what Econ 101 theory says to do. ".

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