kgarten

Yes, as I said we have different definitions.

For me, it's matrix multiplications on data made to output things that are approximations to what a human has written before on that question or text you're prompting it.

I know how training a deep neural network works and there's no reading involved for me :)

It's just estimating what a person would write (being trained on a really large data set of what people wrote). If it's trained on gibberish, it will just output gibberish. If I ask you to read a book with gibberish words would you do it? ChatGPT would (according to you) "read it" and recite the gibberish I gave it without a problem.

The matrix multiplications used to build these models don't show any comprehension, agency, or consciousness. Their point is to estimate the next data point given the previous data point, they will perform the same task independent from which training data we give them. That's not reading.

I don't say this might not change in the future, yet treating ChatGPT like a human using words like "reading," "understanding" etc. or intelligence for that matter is just anthropomorphizing for me.

Very skeptical about this. I'm working with heart rate monitors and different physiological signals. The wrist-based smart watches are still sometimes way off compared to an ECG baseline, depending on skin type and how they are worn.

Even step counting with them is not accurate at all. Can't imagine that Blood Glucose tracking will work anytime soon for a large population.

Then we have a different definition of reading. To read means to understand and comprehend for me.

the models we have today will never be able to read .. they are just able to produce something that we cannot distinguish from human output.

we should be more careful on how we use them. in my opinion, ChatGPT and similar will be horrible for search on the web, as we are flooded with text that looks like a human wrote it but it does not add any knowledge or new insight.

I'm wondering about the study ... I'm a complete novice so might get things wrong, yet the participant description has not much information (e.g. average, std of the age, gender etc.). N is also just given in the abstract.

Also the study does not mention how the experimental setup was: "Subjects were administered a comprehensive psychometric battery of fluid and crystallized intelligence tasks,"

There can be substantial differences, just on how the experimental setup was administered (e.g. potential ordering effects between the tests) and when the scans were done.

Does anybody know if that's a standard procedure to determine "general intelligence"? Sounds vague to me.

especially enterprise Java beans and xml!

in my opinion, the person/entity who wrote the books with the lookup tables is intelligent, the room is not …

true, true ... I especially love Liz Breadly's course https://www.complexityexplorer.org/courses/167-nonlinear-dyn...

she seems an amazing educator, check out her 12 min intro: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MizhVorgywY

don't know how long she worked on that script (conveying the idea first, details later). it's the first time I really understood the basics of linear dynamics. super impressive.

btw all of their videos are hosted on YouTube.

we are talking about Haiti ... thanks for the Sweden statistic. I find both interesting, yet not consider them as downvotable.

there are too many people on hackernews recently who just downvote based on their gut.

don't understand the downvotes. Agree with you.

"The average IQ of a Haitian is less than 80, that's below the level that the US Army will accept ..."

The US Army does not screen recruits using IQ tests and does not reject smb with a low IQ, it seems you were listening too much to Peterson and the likes obsessed with IQ.

It might be art but it's art created by humans using matrix multiplications and a lot of data. For me the image generators are tools. They don't have intention, consciousness, and don't "know" why they produce something. So if you are asking if AI alone can produce art, I would say no, because AI lacks these properties. You have to present a prompt and press a button, that person is the creator of the Art. The AI when prompted can just produce sth. that looks like art to us humans. The user who prompted it has to add the "process and intention" to it.

Regarding Duchamp's Urinal, the intention and the critique it voices is critical for being considered art (and a lot of people still argue about it). https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20170410-the-urinal-that...

There have been a lot of upside down urinals in the world before Duchamp did that, yet nobody considered it art. Here again the intention matters. Matrix multiplications on big data don't have any intention.

Still love my Pursim Librem 14. It's not my everyday laptop, yet still like to use it for several private projects (doing some rust, erlang and elexir programming on it). Trying to learn a new programming language each year ...

in the whole discussion, I feel you are missing a point. AI creates something that looks like art to humans based on a probability distribution.

for me art is not the end product but the process. I want to understand the artists intentions and often a work that looks blant, because deep because of the artist's explanations.

Take Agnes Martin's paintings as an example.

Nice article and interesting comparison. Yet, I have a minor issue with the title: Deep Learning are also statistical methods ... "univariate models vs. " would be a better title.

Giving Elon's recent tweets about engagement and other metrics ... Sounds more like Twitter 3.0 to me ... Web 3.0 style.

"the line goes up"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g

Last time I logged in on Twitter, I got right extremists in my suggestions to follow. There are tons of right wing trolls on the platform (check #thenoticing hashtag), one cannot follow the protests in China due to pr0n spam. Yet, everything is FINE. We are just experimenting.

did they stop putting backdoors into software/hardware and collecting zero day exploits instead of sharing them?

I moved my apple account between countries and lost a lot tv series and books I bought ... oh sorry I didn't buy them I bought the right to temporary view them.

same with some old games/apps, they work still perfectly on my older iPhone with newest updates, yet due to changing the store and developers not "updating" them they are no longer available for me.

moved to android, with linageOS.

on a tangent ... beautiful typography, I love Matthew Butterick's work on legible fonts an his guide to practicle typography.

all the best with the lawsuit.

my point was that the architecture and models are so fairly different that at least the title is trivial. Nobody even the original research claimed that. the suggested research and the paper in question deal with grid cells and how they emerge ... Still artificial neural networks are summations over functions ... vastly different from our brain neural network. so yes caution is advised, yet that point and the title is so obvious that we don't need a paper for it.

my assumption, the author hides the rather technical contribution of the paper behind a tautology to get some attention. seemed to have worked on hackernews as it's on the front page.

this article makes me sad ... a neural network can be also a network of biological neurons, the author means artificial neural network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_network the Wikipedia article even goes into the differences, so why did we need a study for that?

A study urges caution comparing Jellyfish to Jelley ... tasters found they are not the same (even though I hear that fried jellyfish taste nice...)

study urges caution comparing the model to the real thing, as the model has some generalizations the real thing does not ...

Is that such a big news? we have a earth quake warning system in Japan for a long time. Works well, you receive an message and audio alarm on your smartphone usually a couple of seconds before the earth quake hits.

Who is this intellectual class, that makes this organized assault? Can you name figureheads and their organizations?

" Not only do we have the truth on our side, ..." That sounds very extremist to me. I have my beliefs yet would never claim that the objective truth is on my side. In my opinion, it's also counter a scientific mindset and worldview.

What you are writing sounds a lot like Cultural Marxism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_th...

I don't know what is true or not, yet at least from the evidence presented in the wikipedia article, I see very little basis for your claims.

1) because you are Christian ...

2) do you consider how Jewish people feel, who were prosecuted, discriminated and killed by Christians, when you refer to Judeo-Christian traditional values? The early massacres in Europe on Jewish people were mostly done by Christians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism As I said, my Jewish friends get quite rattled and angry if somebody uses the term.

3) For one: religious tolerance: when other religions fought religious wars, Islamic countries were the first who tolerated other Abrahamic religions.

Also the impact of Islam and Muslims on philosophy is enormous. For example, we would have lost most of Ancient Greek texts without the Caliphate ... the Caliphate saved them and developed them when Christian countries were thinking about holy war :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to...

They occupied Spain for a long time, brought irrigation, math (the concept of 0), geometry and a lot of other sciency stuff to Europe. You know how the Christians responded, getting all that tolerance, knowledge, and culture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista#Conversions_and_ex... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

Interestingly, they also forced Jews to convert ... this seems where the first citings of your used word "Judeo-Christian" comes from (the Inquisition lasted until the 1800s). Can you understand that Jewish people might not be found of you using it, now.

Oh and when Christians still used bloodletting to remove "evil spirits", Islamic countries had actual medicine.

Yet, you are probably right, they didn't contribute anything. The only contributions that count are the contributions of our tribe and what other Christian authors say about them.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam make constant references to each other, as they are the Abrahamic religions. They share similar value systems, prophets and texts. Read Natan the Wise for a nice fable about that ;)

I think you didn't mean the term as such but the value system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian_ethics

I thought you used the term Judeo-Christian tradition focusing on values (e.g. ethics). The 1800s meaning does not really make sense as it refers to Jewish converts to Christianity not to shared values. The shared value idea is from the America's in the 1940s not from Europe. It was never used in Europe like that before the time around the second world war, as Jews (and Muslims) were seen as foreign elements and discriminated against for most of the European History. From your wikipedia article:

"Historian K. Healan Gaston has stated that the term emerged as a descriptor of the United States in the 1930s, when the US sought to forge a unified cultural identity in an attempt to distinguish itself from the fascism and communism in Europe."

If you don't think that the term "Judeo-Christian Ethics or Values" excludes Islam, maybe we can term it "Judeo-Muslim Ethics" ... Christianity is in the middle, should be ok for you to use the new term ;) It's shorter and everybody knows that Christianity has to be included in it. My point why not use the older, correct term "Abrahamic"? I think people should be precise with their language.

There are people that argue that Islam has a different value system and does not fit in with the other two religions. Yet, those are usually extreme right wing. Angela Saini takes their view point pretty well apart. Being christian and having religious Jewish and Muslim friends in Europe, I feel we share more than most Evangelicals I met in the U.S. (I just say intelligent design ... ). None of my European friends has any trouble with Evolution (and trusting in Science ... because it works ;)

I am raised catholic and go to church regularly. Universal human rights do not come from Christianity alone. If you take the tree example, let's make a mix of citrus, lemon, and orange. If you say it's just orange that's hiding the truth and makes citrus and lemon people understandable angry :) if you then say it's lemon-orange tradition, the citrus people get angry and the lemon people might feel alienated. Just saying. I recommend Nathan the Wise from Lessing for a read.

Holland was raised in the Christian church by his devout Anglican mother ... wikipedia Citation from Holland : "I am not Greek or Roman at all, but thoroughly and proudly Christian"

So he does not believe in God, yet he defines himself as Christian :) I said Christian author, no contradiction there.

I also recommend Superior from Angela Saini as a read.

You don't need God to believe in Universal Human Rights and Ethics. Seeing the recent abuse scandals, in the catholic church I find organized religion is a bigger problem ...

We disagree fundamentally. Still I appreciate that you take the time to reply. Something, I really like about hackernews :)

I don't contest that we live in a prosperous, privileged time. I contest that this is due to "Judeo-Christian tradition" postulated by Christian authors :)

if you regard universal human rights and dignity as universal (can be accepted, applied and understood by everybody not regarding their culture, heritage or religion ), do you understand that focusing on one particular root might be divisive ... ;)

Yes, I know, the Washington Post article ... This is conjecture from Alan Bullock, several historians disagree with him ... The wikipedia article is much more accurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitle...

It's interesting how much you know about the internal intentions of a human without knowing his language and I guess without ever have read a speech or book by him.

I studied the 3rd Reich ever year in high school, I read Hitlers speeches and am familiar with also my personal family history. I could talk with a lot of eye witnesses even people who met Hitler. I can tell you that this is conjecture.

Oh I feared you use Judeo-Christian ... there is no Judeo-Christian tradition in Europe. Jews were outcast and regarded as second class citizens or as none at all ... (here also Hitler is more continuing a tradition than breaking it, building on antisemitic sentiments to execute the Holocaust). It's a term that was coined in the US and mostly established during the 2nd world war.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/legal-and-political-ma...

In Germany, we usually refer to the Abrahamic religions and traditions and beliefs. Again, same as with "Western" it's interesting what you are excluding with using that term of Judeo-Christian (also it's very contested under Jewish friends of mine ... they find it offensive).

History and progress is complex. If somebody claims sth. gave "singularly ... rise to" ... "among other things, the scientific revolution, the enlightenment, and the constitution of the United States." I'm highly skeptical, especially if only "Western."

In terms of scientific progress, I recommend https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Us-Humans-Transformed-Another...

The traditional interpretation of the French Revolution is that of a class struggle (and communists, also Marx, later used it as argumentation). Yet, it also had anarchist, socialist and feminist roots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune

In regard to Nazis, most Nazis were Christian and the church was integrated in the state. I assume Hitler didn't like the catholic church much, yet he would have never been able to act against Christians as he did against Jews. Hitler declared himself "Not a Catholic, but a German Christian." (Also seeing that most of his officers and people working with him were christian, it's highly questionable).

Compared to Mussolini (and Genitle), Hitler saw atheists as "stupid and animal like" ...

"The fascist movement similarly rejected Christian Western roots" Seeing that Hitler read and focused a lot on old German occultism, hypnotism, and astrology, you could say he was going back to the roots.

> to destroy the Christian values of universal human dignity and the responsibility to care for the poor and needy.

Universal Human Dignity is not a particular Christian value or Christian in nature. It seems much more grounded in the French Revolution (anarchists, socialists, feminists, and communists). I also don't see much of universal human dignity in the history of the West (whatever is included in it). Inquisition, Crusades, World War I ? ;)

"the responsibility to care for the poor and needy" The Nazi party came to power because of too many poor and needy ...

Can you define "Western tradition"? What is part of it and what is not? I have a hard time understanding this concept. If I check Wikipedia on this, it seems Australia and Russia are part of Western Culture ... The concept is fuzzy and confusing.

"When you achieve a local maximum as great as we have ..." I have trouble with wording like that and the exceptionalism that it implies. If Human rights are universal, we should not try to take possession of them based on our view on history. I was not part of any of the struggles of the people before me and cannot be proud of the fact that I was luckily born on a specific GPS coordinate that makes me German (part of the "West").

https://theglobalobservatory.org/2018/10/are-human-rights-a-...

>the west of Europe has a historical bias towards freedom of expression etc

what?? since when ... ? Spain (franco, Spanish Inquisition)? France (Robespierre, Napoleon)? Germany? Italy(Mousolini)? ...

most countries are now leaning towards freedom od expression, yet freedom of sppech is much more restricted compared to the US (and other countries) for example ... the term western does not make sense at all in this context.

I sounds to me similar to "Judeo Christian values" something made up to exclude people.