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fhjdjksksksks6

14 karma · joined September 14, 2020

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fhjdjksksksks6··on Archaeologists with drones discover pre-Columbian earthworks in Kansas
> the fix is to respectfully provide correct information and explain the problems with false claims.

This is precisely what I did in the post you are referring to.

> If you know more, that's wonderful, but please share what you know in the spirit of helping everybody learn, not putting other people down.

I wasn't aware that these discussions are meant to be records for collective learning. I have been framing my replies as responses to particular positions, held and presented by particular people. In almost all situations I target the ideas presented and not the individuals, the exception being the comment you highlighted above. I definitely should have been more respectful in that instance. But I disagree with the notion that I've been trolling or making pointless personal attacks (even in that one case, I expanded upon my reasoning in lots of detail).

fhjdjksksksks6··on Archaeologists with drones discover pre-Columbian earthworks in Kansas
> when we use the word "civilization", we are definitively talking about cities. Associating onset of civilization with 3-4000 BCE is a conclusion from present evidence, not a definition, and would need to be changed in the face of new evidence of cities.

The term 'civilization' is not really used at all among archaeologists, to be frank. You are correct in recognizing the link between the notion of civilization and the notion of cities, since both of these terms are ambiguous, co-dependent and ultimately useless. What evidence is needed to call something a city? Many settlements have been excavated dating to times before 4000 BCE which include features that would be classically referred to as characteristics of cities. If you were to follow the evidence, as you claim to do, the distinction between cities and settlements and between civilizations and whatever is associated with settlements (which is ambiguous as well!!) becomes meaningless. Only cranks really lean on this distinction as having any sort of significant meaning, which tends to be upholding a truly arbitrary notion of what constitutes a civilization (i.e. circular logic, with conclusions leading the parameters of reasoning).

> while it is possible, in principle, that GT builders invented all their stonework methods de novo, it is clearly much more likely that they drew on a long history of gradually more sophisticated stonework not yet unearthed, possibly elsewhere. What we know about sea level changes allows that much of such evidence may now be under water, although it could also be found in the Tepes yet to be excavated.

Where is your evidence for this wild claim? How is this clearly much more likely, when there is literally nothing but speculation to base this on?

> the rest

So much cherry picking and mental gymnastics going on here, I truly don't know where to start.

fhjdjksksksks6··on Archaeologists with drones discover pre-Columbian earthworks in Kansas
> It's admirable, an open exchange of ideas with people you disagree with. Just like we're doing here! Good on us.

Well there are disagreements stemming from different perspectives or opinions, and then there is the distinction between proper research and conclusions drawn from wilful ignorance, cherry picked data and wild presumptive leaps of imagination that masquerade themselves as legitimate research. Graham Hancock's work is pseudoscience, period. My disagreement with you is not a matter of exchanging perspectives, it's a matter of exposing lies.

fhjdjksksksks6··on Archaeologists with drones discover pre-Columbian earthworks in Kansas
You clearly lack background knowledge about contemporary archaeological understanding of the palaeolithic and neolithic periods in southwest asia and anatolia.

First off, referring to 'civilizations' as basic entities or units of analysis is just nonsense. Sure, there has been some talk about 'social complexity' up to the mid-90s, but (a) that discourse is largely outdated since it tends to be based on justifying prior presumptions regarding the nature and boundaries of societies that were already assumed to be 'civilizations' without adequate reason, (b) that perspective is being replaced by more bottom-up approaches that model various kinds of behaviours and interactions, including possibilities and limits thereof, and as guided by the archaeological evidence, and (c) even when we do talk about so-called 'civilizations', that is typically limited to a period starting around 4000 BCE. You are clearly ignoring (what I consider to be) the most exciting topic of archaeological research, the pre-pottery neolithic. As bildung points out, coherent models about this period have been formulated by drawing on evidence accumulated from dozens of PPN sites.

EDIT: Beyond the Ubaid is a fantastic edited volume that touches on this shift, with papers by leading archaeologists: https://oi.uchicago.edu/research/publications/saoc/saoc-63-b...

EDIT2: See also: https://doi.org/10.15184/aqy.2014.44 and https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10963-007-9008-1

Yes, it is true that Gobekli Tepe has no habitation associated with it, but we do not consider this an unresolved puzzle. Gobleki Tepe is commonly accepted as a great example of the ingenuity of nomadic peoples. Why do you assume that it would be necessary for its builders to have been sedentary?

fhjdjksksksks6··on Archaeologists with drones discover pre-Columbian earthworks in Kansas
Klaus Schmidt, who died around 5 years ago, was the director of excavations at Gobleki Tepe. I highly doubt he would have allowed Hancock to perverse the legitimacy of his work. To read more about how Gobleki Tepe has been abused by pseudoarchaeologists, check out the Tepe Telegrams blog, which is produced by archaeologists who actually work at the site: https://www.dainst.blog/the-tepe-telegrams/

> Gullible means believing something. Believe nothing. This is what an open mind is.

Umm what? If you can't believe anything is true then you can't retain or formulate any knowledge at all. Seriously, this is a really bad take.

fhjdjksksksks6··on Archaeologists with drones discover pre-Columbian earthworks in Kansas
Graham Hancock is a fraud. We certainly underestimate the ingenuity of past peoples, but the way that Hancock frames this discourse is full of shit.

Bad Archaeology is a great resource that explains why a wide array of pseudoarchaeological notions and tropes, including those peddled by Hancock, are wrong. Check it out.

http://www.badarchaeology.com/