elecbit

Check world news today and see the state violence against catalan people.

More than 800 wounded in hospital. I think it is not a fantasy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/01/dozens-injured...

Please downvote this fascist.

The problem here is that all the inheritants of the Franco dictatorship and their mentailty are still in the power, thanks to the Spanish transition in which the Dictator passed the power to the King. Then promoted a bi-party politics where the minorities would never be able to change anything.

It is not fair and Catalonia is fighting (again) to change it.

Then, let us Catalans be stupid and go to extintion ourselves. We will probably be fine. If you want us to be in Spain, please seduce us instead of forbid us everything.

I haven't heard of any new independent country asking to be part again of the former one.

CNI (Centro Nacional de Inteligencia), like CIA in Spain, is working a lot to hide this comments and arguments. You can see a lot of comments which are the same speech as Partido Popular.

In the Catalan media they appear in waves, polluting all the comments and making the discussion unbearable.

They are also holding cyberatacks to the Catalan News Agency so we cannot inform outside.

They have also closed aerial space, so drones cannot fly and take pictures of massive demonstrations tomorrow if we cannot vote.

Google censors an app from Google Play which was telling people where to vote, after Spanish court forces it: https://twitter.com/thespainreport/status/913798991539777537 https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/913812096319737857

And more geopolitical info: https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/913920102411718656

Tech people in the world: Please help us and spread the word!

"Catalans don't have freedom of expressions or are oppressed" -> Catalans don't have the right to express themselves about independence? Is this taboo?

And all violations that have happened have been brought to the Spanish and European court. In some years I am sure Spain(or the rest of it) will have to pay for it.

Threats to the press, threats to polititians. Closing websites, chasing teenagers who fork a repo in github, opening mail, spying communications.

Check Julian Assange tweets to know a bit more about it. You cannot accuse him of being a part in this conflict. https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/914029345018122240

"decide over another group which is a subset of the former" A subset of the former in the name of the frontiers set by a centralist monarch who won a war and forbid language and institutions in Catalonia in 1714. Check the law that supports my comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Planta_decrees

"Otherwise, any city of any country, or any group of individuals, could decide to vote and set their own rules for whatever they want." --> And do you think this is wrong? I think self-governance is the future. Not to go against anyone, but to decide more about everything. Not to put a paper in a ballot every 4 years.

However, United Nations experts don't think the same as you.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?Ne...

Censorship in internet. Opening private letters. Political detentions and raids to political parties offices, searching for posters and ballots. Bringing 10000 policeman by boat to avoid a vote.

Sound quite authoritarian to me.

I agree that "not voting is also democracy". However I cannot agree about not allowing to vote, which is the case. It's a political issue, which should be solved like it was in Scotland.

In the name of what, a group can decide over another on what is it allowed to do? Because of the frontiers made after conquering when using force?

Yes, and after last elections the majority of the Catalan parliament is pro-independence. Instead of proclaming independence, a referendum is proposed, which has the support of 80% of the population in Catalonia.

Tyranny is a group not allowing another group to decide what to do.

Hear yourself: "the referendum is not legal". Such a nice view of what democracy is.

So willing to vote and say goodbye to this bla-bla-bla-this is not legal, that is not legal.

Good bye opressors. My deceased family in the war the dicator won will be really happy if we can finally separate. Too many open wounds you have never tried to heal.

Democracy is listening the majority of a group, without forgetting and respecting the minorities.

You don't argument why Catalonia is not opressed. Banning all the laws emerging from its parliament is not respecting.

Sorry Spaniards, we will vote. It's not about you, it's about us. It's not about us feeling superior or supremacist. It's about deciding our way, as we think too different in too many things. We can be good neighbours.

They don't contribute, they have an independent economic system which comes from ancient times. Basque Country and Navarra have this privilege.

Think out of the box. Is moral a law that forbids people speaking? Self-determination is in the human rights and Catalonia has more than 1000 years of history, culture and language. Democracy cannot be illegal, so this banning must be disobbeyed.

Without disobbeying, woman and black people would not vote nowadays, so history proves it is a good way to take down immoral legal laws.

EDIT: UN experts say that Spain must respect fundamental rights in Catalonia. Freedom of expression, freedom of press and power separation is at stake.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?Ne...

This is about democracy.

A Catalan here. Quite a bad description, I think. We should remember that Catalonia had its own language forbidden to even speak in the street for 40 years during Franco's dictatorship. Language and culture was kept alive thanks of people keeping it in secrecy.

When "democracy" returned, some of the competences they had before the war were returned to the government.

After 6 years of demonstrations of 2-3 million (out of 7million) asking to hold a referendum and receiving NO to any request, it was announced and proposed one year ago in order to agree it with Spanish government, but they would not even discuss it. In the end the unilateral way is the only way to hold this referendum.

Why shouldn't it be allowed to ask people's preferences? Isn't it democracy? People who doesn't want independence can say NO. Laws should serve people's desires, not forbid participation and opinion.