edavis

An important note here is the $30/mo is for the relay which is _not_ something the average user will ever need to run

Instead, you're looking for hosting a PDS which you absolutely can do for $10/mo (or less)

I run a PDS on a OVH Cloud VPS for $5/mo for myself, some alts, and some bots

Which components are you referring to?

this post by the team has some: https://bsky.social/about/blog/11-29-2024-engagement

For anybody else coming across this, a reply was made here: https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3lbvbtqrg5t2t

Bit of a side note for my fellow protocol enjoyers: this site is WhiteWind which is another app on the atproto network. Bluesky is a microblogging app on atproto while WhiteWind is a long form blogging app on the same network. It's pretty neat.

And Christine replied to the reply here which I believe is the terminus of this conversation: https://dustycloud.org/blog/re-re-bluesky-decentralization/

I'm sorry, but there's just a qualitative difference between a company setting up some API endpoints and what Bluesky PBC is doing with building atproto, releasing PDS software, encouraging self-hosters and treating them as first class, etc.

You may be interested in this thread from a core dev which examines this exact play by Reddit (and how nobody could do anything about it), how it would have been different on atproto, and how a robust ecosystem keeps incumbent players honest: https://bsky.app/profile/dholms.xyz/post/3la636r666c2p

If this sort of thing interests you, check out atfile: https://github.com/electricduck/atfile

https://plc.directory can be mirrored and this new mirror would become the authority if something like this happened

Users choose which 3p labelers they subscribe to. If a labeler service starts abusing their position, users can drop it.

https://github.com/bluesky-social/proposals/tree/main/0002-l... is a deep-dive on how Bluesky sees labelers fitting into the ecosystem.

For the "I want to use different emails for different repos" issue, I've seen the `includeIf` technique but it felt fiddly. What I've done is set `user.useConfigOnly = true` and commented out `user.email` in ~/.gitconfig.

Now the first time I commit in a new repo, it errors out with "Author identity unknown" and I punch in "git config user.email ADDR" for the email I want to use and re-run the commit.

Love it. A "choose your own adventure" depending on how much you distrust Bluesky PBC :)

My only feedback would be: I'd love to read a real deep dive on just bringing in your own did:web and using a custom PDS. The DIY AppView and/or Relay is super interesting, but that more straightforward concept of "you own your identity and you own your data" is such a powerful hook that I'd love to be able to share something straight from the docs.bsky.app domain on how to do it.

I don't think they should be intimidated, I'm just saying they are: https://erinkissane.com/mastodon-is-easy-and-fun-except-when...

But I wouldn't say it's a fully inconsequential choice, either. Your instance and how it's situated in the wider fediverse does matter to some degree. Not having a full view of the network, missing meaningful replies, at the mercy of some admin #fediblock drama, etc.

Or maybe you finally find a good instance but your admin dislikes Meta so you're defederated from threads.net now. That's a bummer.

I don't know... the whole Threads + ActivityPub thing just seems like Meta trying to keep the regulators at bay rather than them actually embracing the ethos of becoming a major federated social media player.

So launch in July 2023, handful of accounts have AP support in November-ish 2023, full AP support end of 2024? I guess it's not nothing, they did have to bolt something entirely new on top of IG's infrastructure. But for a team that big, feels like we'd be seeing more if it was a true priority for them. Plus Threads leaning towards opt-in AP support which will only inhibit uptake (that was the last I heard, anyway).

I'd be shocked if Instagram ever went with ActivityPub, though.

It wasn't hard for me because I grokked what I was doing, but for a lot of people they've never had to make a decision like that before. Especially so early in an onboarding process. And they get caught up trying to decide if they should join the instance for web developers or the one for cat lovers, because both interests are important to them. It turns people off to the idea of federated social media.

I'm going to push back on the migrating being a challenge even for Bluesky if an instance vanishes. If nothing else, you do not need your old host ("PDS" in atproto parlance) to cooperate — or even be online — if you wish to migrate in Bluesky. With a local copy of your data, you can send your social graph to a new host with ease and be right back in business.

Hugo is getting a lot of love in here (with good reason). If you do end up trying Hugo and feel it's like 90% what you want but never quite perfect, do check out Zola (https://www.getzola.org/). It feels the most like Hugo of anything I've tried but I found the docs and the template system better.

whyrusleeping answered this ably. They are part of the Bluesky team but aren't hiding the ball.

You can't do this today on the main network, no. Apparently they'll be "rolling out an experimental early version of federation" sometime later this month.

As for credibility on that timeline, the only major missed deadline they've had that I can recall was on making posts visible to those without an account. It was slated for (IIRC) late November/early December 2023 and launched December 21, 2023. I believe they overhauled the frontend as part of that work and it delayed things.

Also, they have already blessed one alternative DID method (`did:web`) and are open to slowly expanding that set (https://atproto.com/specs/did).

I realize this may already be on the roadmap for after open federation, but I would love some sort of "bluesky for the truly paranoid (affectionate)" guide that explained soup to nuts how to participate in the network by running your own PDS and using did:web for identity. An answer to the question: I don't trust plc.directory for my identity and I don't trust the bsky.social PDS to host my data but I want to participate — how do I do that?

I have probably the least understanding of how this part of the protocol operates. Part of that has to do with the new (to me) concepts and the rest is open federation not being in place. I think something like this would be really useful and would prove your bonafides to others that Bluesky PBC is serious about being billionaire-proof.

Congrats on opening up registration!

> is there anything particularly compelling about it compared to a centralized platform?

As a user? I'd say custom feeds. You can create alternative feeds using whatever algorithm you want that users can subscribe to in a way that is very smooth and user friendly. Third party alternatives have the feel of first party features.

As a developer? The protocol is "locked open," as it were. I feel confident building on it. It feels more like building for the web than within a walled garden. Bluesky could have made things easier for themselves by making certain aspects centralized, but they didn't compromise.

> honestly still just waiting for the android app to not have terrible startup time and for there to be anybody on it

There is a alternative client (https://graysky.app/) that you may have better luck with. Same deal as with custom feeds. They are not territorial about the existence of alternatives. The Graysky dev (@mozzius.dev) and the Bluesky social-app devs are very friendly with each other and share development techniques all the time.

Also, the official app has a Github repo (https://github.com/bluesky-social/social-app) that accepts issues and PRs. I opened an issue recently as some icons were wrong in a particular location. Some non-team affiliated developer created a fix, opened a PR, and the core team merged it in and deployed it a few days later. That was pretty cool.

I have been poking around bluesky and atproto as nothing more than an interested developer since around May 2023. I certainly don't know everything, but I've exercised most aspects of the protocol by now (firehose, custom feeds, sandbox federation, etc).

If you've always wondered something about this platform/protocol and want the opinion of a non-team member, ask away.

> (2) why would I want to leave if it's so great?

A lot of people felt burned by the changes at Twitter over the past 14 months or so. They made meaningful connections on there and with new ownership came changes that altered the character of the platform, in their eyes. But because Twitter is centralized, it's difficult to move your social graph to a new platform in a robust way.

The promise of the AT protocol is being "billionaire-proof." If Bluesky gets bought out and you don't like the new owner, you can move your entire social graph and all your posts to a new atproto service without needing permission from the old service.

That would be the nuclear option. A smaller step you could take before that is use a different set of moderation services to curate the experience you want (more info: https://bsky.social/about/blog/4-13-2023-moderation)

I think the "default feed" you're seeing is the "Discover" custom feed that shows up if you haven't followed anybody. Once you do that, your "default feed" is what your follows have posted in reverse chronological order.

IMO, the "Discover" feed can be a bit much sometimes. It's very much the collective id of a certain type of social media poster. And not always my cup of tea.

But the beauty of Bluesky is there are millions of accounts and thousands of custom feeds you can pick from to tailor your experience.

For example, here's one where people share photos of mushrooms: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:hsqwcidfez66lwm3gxhfv5in/fe...

FWIW, this side of Bluesky definitely exists but if you're diligent about curating your follows and avoiding certain custom feeds this type of content is pretty easy to avoid. There is no blackbox algorithm blasting rage bait onto your timeline.

Depending on how you build your social graph, your experience can run the gamut of anything from peak political Twitter to peak pedantic Mastodon. It's up to you.

During the early days of what would become Bluesky, they first reviewed the available options for decentralized public communications and nothing out there checked all the boxes. So they moved forward building something completely new that did.

I wrote a comment last week diving more into this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660192

Bluesky seems to be the "backup" for a lot of Twitter users. When Twitter had their outage a day or two ago the network activity spiked to some of the highest levels seen since like October.

> You still can't send videos and gifs. That's just, so basic for a social network.

Yeah, I'd agree if you're looking for a more polished social media client then Twitter, Threads, and even some Mastodon clients will probably better serve you. But the official client primarily exists as a means to an end (building atproto) rather than an end in itself. Those features are still on the roadmap, I believe, but just not a priority at the moment. There are alternative clients (a bunch for web, at least one for iOS) you may have better luck with.

> Let alone all the other missing things, and how awful the apps are. They are basically the worst example to show React Native.

Bluesky has a pretty small team, all things considered. I think they've said in the past it would have been impossible for them to do apps for iOS, Android, and web without React Native. FWIW, Dan Abramov joined them a few months ago and has been working in public on tackling some of the more tricky RN bugs.

Most of the "GIFs" you encounter on social media these days are actually autoplay videos without sound. So it's not that crazy. I think they're waiting until they have a robust solution figured out for video support before they land "GIF" support.

One of the alternative clients (Graysky) supports GIFs through some integration tenor.com, I believe.

I played a small role in the RSS part of this release, nudging them to go with title-less items in the feed.

If anybody wants a Bluesky invite code, I have a handful available. DM me at @edavis@hachyderm.io or at https://t.me/ejd215. First come, first served!

I have my foot in both the ActivityPub and atproto camps as nothing more than an interested observer/developer, but I want to defend Bluesky a bit here.

What Bluesky are really building is atproto. If bsky.app and atproto were in a house fire and the team could only rescue one, they'd rescue atproto. Throughout this year there was such demand for a Twitter alternative that wasn't Mastodon, people jumped aboard bsky.app despite it only being a testbed/PoC for the development of atproto.

The Bluesky team reviewed the existing protocols for distributed public conversation and none of them checked all the boxes. So they built their own. Their goals were [1]:

- Account portability. Being able move your entire social graph (identity, posts, follows, likes, etc) without the previous server needing to cooperate or even be online [2].

- Scale. A "big-world" view of the entire network to enable global conversation.

- Trust. Letting users build custom feeds so you can control what your timeline looks like and being open by default.

One complaint against atproto is: why not work instead to improve ActivityPub? As someone who has worked with both protocols, I agree with the Bluesky team that it would have been too difficult to retrofit these features into ActivityPub (portability and scale, especially). Plus, a lot of Mastodon power users have philosophical disagreements with the things required for "big-world" global conversation so it's unlikely Bluesky would have received a warm welcome anyway.

So, on one hand, "go-it-alone alternative" is not flagrantly wrong. Bluesky is the only app using the protocol and it does fragment the space. But it's important to remember there are reasons for why they're going alone on this.

(Sorry, I've had these ideas swimming in my head for the past few days and your comment spurred me to organize my thinking by writing it down!)

- [1] https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/3-6-2022-a-self-authenticating-s...

- [2] https://atproto.com/guides/faq#why-not-use-activitypub

> the arrival of Threads is definitely an existential threat for Twitter

I had a similar thought when I joined Threads last night and within 30 seconds saw the accounts of Adam Schefter, Adrian Wojnarowski, and Shams Charania all actively posting.

If you follow NFL and NBA news you'll know these names but for anybody that doesn't, these insider accounts are firmly at the center of the NFL and NBA breaking news universe and for going on a decade now Twitter was where you went to follow them.

What Threads has done is break that monopoly Twitter had on this sort of thing. It gives regular users a clean, familiar, functional, working UI with a simple onboard process and it gives high-profile accounts a stable platform, a verified badge, and a boatload of users.

Could Twitter survive if it was no longer the epicenter of North American sports discussion? Probably, but it would be a big loss and would signal to other communities on there that Twitter's expiration date is rapidly approaching.

Hi, I created hnrss.org so I can take a stab at this:

1) Yes, adding `?link=comments` is the right way to switch the `<link>` RSS element from the submission URL to the HN comments URL. And since that's a global option, you can also do something like `/newest?points=25&link=comments`. Just join multiple parameters with `&`.

2) The difference between news.ycombinator.com/rss and hnrss.org/frontpage is `/rss` appears to be an exact replica of the HN homepage just as a RSS feed (so the submissions move around in the feed like they do on the homepage) while `/frontpage` is a reverse chronological feed of all HN submissions that currently have the `front_page` tag applied to it within Algolia.

(When Algolia indexes HN submissions, it attaches "tags" that can be referenced later. One of those tags is `front_page` which just means the submission is currently on the front page. See https://hn.algolia.com/api for more.)

Hopefully that clarifies why the two feeds appear to have different items.

3) While hnrss.org does have a `?points=X` filter, that's unrelated to `/frontpage`. Like I said, `/frontpage` is just submissions with the `front_page` tag while `?points=X` only returns submissions over X points. You can combine them, but you don't have to.

Hope this all helps!

If I understand right, adding "link=comments" to any hnrss URL should do the trick.

Docs: https://hnrss.github.io/#link-parameter