dminik

You know, we used to develop on computers with less than a Gig of RAM. A phone with 6/8/12 GB should be plenty enough to to do some development on. Or even less if you don't need to compile.

Seriously, you can run the windows version of GTA V on a phone. It runs pretty ok as well.

Syntax aside, programmers and mathematicians have a very different view on how things should be done.

Programmers look at data and see opportunities for running a pipeline of transformations (map/filter/...). And they tend to write their SQL like this as well. Or use something like Linq or one of the various pipe syntax SQL extensions.

I would say that this is a major reason why there is this sentiment of "SQL is yucky" by developers. The mental models just don't match.

Maybe. Was it wrong to call Madoff a fraudster in the early 2000s?

Now, I don't think this is necessarily a Madoff situation, or even a dotcom one. Ed Zitron is certainly not Markopolos. Especially evidence wise.

But, getting a date wrong doesn't necessarily mean that he's wrong in general.

Maybe all of those authors exploring dystopian cyberpunk settings were onto something.

Tbf, he only has to get it right once.

I guess my point was that it doesn't matter whether your framework/library is immutable/mutable/retained/functional/MVC/MVVM or whatever. You're hitting platform limitations one way or another.

But the rest of your app still gets the simplicity of a declarative programming model.

Fair, the standard library is not quite so awful. There are still some pretty long names in it though.

https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/23/docs/api/java.base...

Or this 6 word beast: https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/21/docs/api/jdk.dynal...

This is probably the most enterprisey sounding, but not the longest class I could find: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/javax/naming/spi/I...

No offense, but this doesn't seem like a realistic way to look at things.

Autodesk (since you mentioned CAD) itself dates back to 1980s. And even then, they had at least 15 people working on AutoCAD. That's a small team size. Today, they have over 14000 employees. Some random website tells me they had ~5000 of them 20 years ago. You can make anything work when you throw an army of people at it. It's not exactly a good point towards small teams being able to build complex imperative/OOP apps.

That's not to say that Apple is not dropping the ball here. I don't really have any Apple devices to check for myself, but I know that Microsoft, for instance, has been doing much more than just dropping the ball when it comes to UI. But, I'm not sure that has anything to do with imperative vs declarative.

To make complex layouts (flex, ...) and have them run performantly you need some form of a retained backing state anyways.

The main difference between various retained, OOP, functional, immediate, declarative, ..., approaches is how they treat this state.

For imperative/retained/OOP libraries, you operate on this state itself. Your nodes/widgets know their own state, how to render themselves, their place in the hierarchy and so on.

For immediate/functional(?) libraries, this state is a cache. It's not something you work with directly.

Despite not really liking React itself, I think it has found the best model.

You take a retained core, possibly OOP, maybe ECS or whatever, and you write a declarative wrapper around it. This lets you escape the easy-mode declarative landscape when needed, but most UI can still be simple to write.

How much of this is that most of these tools have been around for 20+ years and come from a time where OOP was the holy grail coming to save humanity?

I mean, it's not quite that easy. The web is a lot more dynamic than WPF. If you just want virtualized homogeneous lists, there are libraries for that (and grids).

But, once you start hitting things like differently sized elements, search and so on, you start running into platform limitations that you won't be able to resolve in React land.

Stuff like virtualization (if we're talking about stuff like virtualized lists) is hard not because of React, but because there just isn't any support for it in browsers. React doesn't really help here, but in my experience, it's usually the browser that starts choking on high element counts, not React.

Async is just difficult in general though. It's not really a surprise that most libraries/frameworks converged on similar designs.

It's clearly still very popular.

https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2025/technology#1-web-framew...

Ok, it's possible that my bilingual ahh is misunderstanding the comment. Maybe we can try to come to an understanding?

I read that comment as "Show me where [long classnames] are in the language, standard library or <relevant ecosystem project>."

Spring is one of the biggest java libraries and quite widely used. I think it fits rather nicely, even if the example itself is fairly old.

> Or anything like it

That's a very uncharitable take on what I said. A comment that I've written semi-sarcastically as a reply to someone accusing me of supporting slavery.

Now, I'm fully aware that it's just one guy. But technically, under the proposed system it would be more like 5 guys.

The current economic system is based on people working in exchange for payment. They can then use it on their own life, including living space, food, health and entertainment. Those who do not work do not get such "luxuries."

I'm not arguing for forcing people to work. If we get to a point where no work is economically feasible for humans to do I would very much like some form of UBI or similar to take care of people.

Speaking of enslaving people, the billionaire class has started speaking of removing peoples right to vote if they do not pay taxes (e.g. if they do not work.)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/why-did-154-bil...

I very much wish that people would no longer have to do busy work and that they would have time for family and hobbies, but being the pessimist that I am, I'm not very hopeful we'll get there any time soon.

I wish I could share your optimism.

Only insofar as you were able to keep a job. If you lose your job to automation, and there are no more jobs left, what do you do? Where do you get the money to keep your standard of living?

So it can both outprice people as well as take their jobs? Well, leeway away.

Just as the author is free to chose their own forge, Codeberg is free to set their own rules. It's not like Codeberg is a monopoly for hosting FOSS.

People who buy (and pay extra) for hand crafted items do not do this for slave labor, but because they believe that the quality is higher. If Codeberg wants to create a space for humans to collaborate on software, then all the more power to them.

> If your software politics mean other people owe you free labor on your terms, that is not freedom.

You, nor anyone else, is forced to work on FOSS. Forking is always a thing and you can host your own LLM generated patches on any other forge. Or just stop using the software.

> I am anti-copyright. I admire Aaron Swartz. The old hacker line was not subtle: information wants to be free; we are your worst nightmare.

Surely then you would be enraged that LLM providers are getting away with the largest copyright theft in human history, while Aaron lays dead for stealing a drop in the ocean in comparison.

The pirates are still just as much for freedom of information, but disgusted by this two tier justice system.

A really dumb 1 AM question. If there is a lot of work thrown away because stuff is compiled even if not needed, would making every function generic and delaying compilation until instantiation help here?

Note that it's not a serious suggestion, but I wonder what effect it would have on build times.

It's funny, but a large reason for why Go was chosen was explicitly because it has semantics close to TypeScript and that made it automatable:

https://github.com/microsoft/typescript-go/discussions/411#d...

> But this wasn't a compiler redesign, and the TypeScript to Go move was far more automatable and more one-to-one in its mapping.

So basically the opposite of what you're saying.

I wonder what the click through rate is for the source links. Based on what I've been hearing, it's very low. And that's if the particular LLM/interface/answer even bothers to add them.

If the bots are eating your site traffic and users, what's the point of allowing them in?

I'm sorry, but just mentioning TIOBE has killed any credibility you might have had. I mean, seriously, look at the list.

JavaScript at #6, when it should be at #1? Trailed by Visual Basic at #7? SQL (not a programming language) at #8 and R (have you ever seen an R job?) at #9. Then you have Rust just barely squeezing past Delphi? Followed by scratch???

Come on, this is not a serious source. Neither are the the rest really. Any popularity/usage list that doesn't have JS at first place is not serious.

Is it a CVE that an app running on my PC could actually be running under GDB? It's the entire purpose of these tools.

Is there anything suggesting that Bun even attempted to submit their Zig patches? As far as I know, they were stuck 2 versions behind. With the amount of changes and Zig already working on incremental I'm not sure what the point would have been.

Well, we've been saying this about infinite monkeys too.

This is probably going to sound elitist, but it is how I've been seeing this whole LLM thing play out.

I don't necessarily believe in 10x devs, but there is a very clear output difference between various developers. During my career I've been both in a position where I was delivering much higher quality code at a similar pace to other coworkers and also mediocre code at a slower pace. Sometimes at the same time.

Now, AI itself is a force multiplier. Depending on the task, your setup, your skill level (both as a developer and with LLMs), the weather, the model and so on, it can range anywhere from actively hindering you, to solving the entire thing for you. Let's say that on average you get a 20% productivity boost.

If you take a 0.8x developer and give them a 1.2 force multiplier LLM, you get a 0.96x developer. Worse, the axis that has moved is speed, not quality.

All this to say that if you let a below average developer vibecode, you get a much higher volume of slop. You can make an agent create good code, but this developer didn't care before so why should they now?

*Note that this is from experience. I've started getting feature PRs from our devops team. It's been a very enlightening experience.