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ditonal

4,033 karma · joined August 29, 2012

This has basically become my "anonymous" account for rants etc.
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ditonal··on When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt
Thank you for the informative response.

1) Ok, Google/FB common shares were worth something. Those are extreme outliers in exits, and had ethical founders. But founders have another option if they drive the common share value to nothing - retention bonuses. They can say, ok we will make all the common shares worthless, but you can just give me a huge package as part of the aquisition. So employees can't rely on founders looking after common shares out of self-interest. If you read the article, it looks like that's extremely similar to what happened in this case.

2) All these financial experts can figure out a way to protect their necks without leaving the employees necks under the axe.

3) Real protection would also be voting rights, which generally preferred shares get a lot more of, and then less tangible things like invitation to board meetings, something mere employees accept is absurd to expect. As long as employees agree to sacrifice compensation while being told they're not investors and don't deserve to be treated like one, they're getting hoodwinked.

ditonal··on When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt
Absolutely not! I do, however, think it's extremely questionable when VCs lobby for taxpayer money to fund for-profit bootcamps that they invest in to train people for the skills their companies need. It's outsourcing the cost of training to the taxpayer, all while driving up the value of their bootcamp investments. Instead, these companies should drop their "we're a poor startup that needs people who can hit the ground running", and actually train people themselves. These "startups" are funded by extremely well-off VCs who could afford it. They shouldn't ask the middle class to pay for it for them.

Democrats and VCs have a very tight nit relationship.

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-obamas-1...

http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/114-15/mayor-bi...

ditonal··on When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt
Very glad the NYTimes ran this piece. The only part they underplayed is they made it sound like the startup "stumbled." No, it sounds like it went exactly as planned. Blackberry got the acquisitions, investors got their money, execs got their bonuses, and the rank-and-file got nothing. That isn't stumbling, that's the playbook.

Tech employees need to wake up about common vs preferred shares, and that the former are worthless. They are NOT worthless because they are "lottery tickets" and most startups fail. They are worthless because they are designed, as a financial instrument, to be fake equity with no real protection from dilution and liquidation preference.

The most insulting aspect of common shares is that engineers get talked into pay cuts on the premise that they get these options, essentially being asked to invest a portion of their potential compensation into the company, but are then told they don't deserve to be given real equity because they aren't "real" investors.

I understand that from a founder's perspective, asking someone to give you millions of dollars is significantly more challenging than asking someone to take a 30% pay cut, so it's easy to give strong preference to the former. But, supposedly and debatably, it's also difficult to recruit talent, and it's going to be significantly more difficult as employees increasingly realize that Common ISO's aren't "lottery tickets" they are "toilet paper". So either startups are going to have to re-invent these equity packages, or the talent will flock away from the VC companies and towards companies that can pay salary. Of course, the VCs have a huge playbook to flood the market with more talent to (taking $100 mil taxpayer money to fund the same bootcamps they invest in to work for the same companies they hire via Obama's tech talent shortage program, for example), so who knows.

ditonal··on Bullshit Startup Experiences
Feel free to steal mine:

#1

me: the candidate seemed pretty good, even if he made some mistakes.

CEO: a false negative is better than a false positive! Better to reject and err on the side of caution!

...later

CEO: we can't find people! There's a shortage! It's a crisis!

#2

CEO: we only hire the best, smartest people in the world!

me: OK I found one! He wants a high salary.

CEO: welllll, average market salary is only $, but since "we're a startup" we can't even do that....

ditonal··on Recruiters and investors think talent counts for more than determination
Sure, but the ability to stay focused enough to write high-quality code for hours on end is a talent in and of itself. I know many programmers who I think I am equal to if we both sit down fully rested and program for a few hours, but they can keep churning out good stuff for a long time after I'm tired and checking Hacker News because I lost focus.
ditonal··on Who Y Combinator Companies Want
Keep all these spurious rejections and arbitrary hiring processes in mind next time pg or BigTech's lobbyists bemoan the desperate shortage of great programmers.
ditonal··on The Tenacity of Tech Recruiters
This is like a telemarketer asking what's the best way to sell their life insurance policy when interrupting someone's dinner. The problem is that there is a general lack of empathy in almost all of these 'introductions'. I already know there's a lot of developer jobs out there. So what are you accomplishing by emailing me, other than spamming me that the companies you represent are also hiring? How it is going to help my career to leave my current position and join yours? Are you going to give me new experience in an interesting field? Let me lead a critical project? Pay me more money?

Telling me what VCs have invested, how 'fast-paced' the company is, how 'work-hard-play-hard' you are is pretty much irrelevant to me, other than I guess the somewhat desperate sounding angle that your equity will be worth a lot. Usually the reason you can't answer the questions I asked above is because you don't have a good answer to them - you are just trying to spam me by 'selling' a mediocre product with no differentiating advantages. So you're just spamming me, so don't send the email. If you can't answer the question of why it will be great for my career, past OMG WE'RE DEFINITELY THE NEXT FACEBOOK or WE HAVE MICROBREWS AND UNDEFINED VACATION POLICY, then you're just a telemarketer/spammer and there's no sane advice to give you other then don't click send. Keep it on the job board and out of people's inboxes.

ditonal··on Is It Possible to Achieve Equitable Equity for Startup Employees? [audio]
I still meet a ton of engineers, who while being surprisingly analytical in other aspects of their life, think their worthless equity packages are worth something. Some people don't even know what percentage their shares represent. They definitely don't give enough thought to dilution, liquidation preference, lack of voting rights.

I'll say it over and over again - if you're asked to take a total compensation cut i.e. turn down public stock or salary from an established company to take options at a startup you are an investor. In fact a bigger portion of your net worth and income is invested then the typical VC's portfolio. And yet you don't get voting rights, you get screwed by liquidation preference etc, and the standard response is "well, you're not an investor, so you don't get preferred shares."

Engineers are often hilariously bad at finance and even worse at negotiation.

ditonal··on Do Not Disclose Your Salary to Recruiters
I had multiple companies bait and switch me on your site and you did nothing. Hired is a waste of time until you clean up bad actor companies.
ditonal··on Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO
Just search for JOBS in the filing itself, I've quoted it a few times in other comments.

Here's a link talking about the regulatory change:

http://ww2.cfo.com/regulation/2015/03/sec-approves-new-rules...

ditonal··on Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO
But in fact they are IPOing on the NYSE using the new regulation that just changed:

http://ww2.cfo.com/regulation/2015/03/sec-approves-new-rules...

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1594805/000119312515...

"We qualify as an “emerging growth company” pursuant to the Jumpstart Our Business Startups Act of 2012, or the JOBS Act. An emerging growth company may take advantage of specified exemptions from various requirements that are otherwise applicable generally to public companies in the United States. These provisions include:"

And yes the advantage is that you open up emerging companies to retail investors. The problem is the tech industry's history with small companies and retail investors is not so great, I would say the danger outweights the benefits.

ditonal··on Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO
I am not talking about Shopify specifically, the reason it's relevant is because they are IPOing using a new set of rules based on the JOBS act. This IPO would not have been possible even two months ago. Read the filing and read more about the JOBS act and "IPO-lites." Even if Shopify is not a bad investment, the point stands that smaller companies under less scrutiny being sold to the public opens up big avenues for fraud and pump-and-dumps.
ditonal··on Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO
Sure, but for smaller companies you will ONLY see the paid PR , whereas big companies have a lot more critics since they are better known, have more employees, etc.
ditonal··on Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO
First of all, limited VC involvement? They raised $122 million from VCs:

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/shopify

These investors include VC firms like First Mark Capital, which are NYC based - and oh yeah, the exact same VC firm that was the biggest investor in the startup I worked at that I said is in freefall but now getting positive financial press. It's not about whether the VCs are running operations, it's about whether the VCs are worried they won't get their money back without an IPO, which seems like a genuine concern for an operation that's losing money.

As to your second point of confusion, your pointing out its a Canadian company as if what I'm saying doesn't apply:

"We qualify as an “emerging growth company” pursuant to the Jumpstart Our Business Startups Act of 2012, or the JOBS Act. An emerging growth company may take advantage of specified exemptions from various requirements that are otherwise applicable generally to public companies in the United States. These provisions include:"

They are IPOing on the NYSE so they are still regulated by the SEC, and if you actually read the filing you will note that they are using the new JOBS act in order to IPO. What I'm saying is not unrelated to anything, Shopify is one of the first companies to take advantage of these new changes in regulation. Maybe Shopify specifically isn't a shaky company, but I do think the doors have been opened for shaky companies without much scrutiny to be sold to a public that has been misled by PR.

ditonal··on Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO
I'm not a financial expert so I'm really not sure, but I'm extremely distrustful of this JOBS Act and "IPO-Lites." Not Shopify specifically, but it's going to open the door to a lot of smaller companies that have a lot less scrutiny on them to IPO and I worry that it will allow VCs to dump their weaker companies on the public, and turn a potential private equity bubble into something bigger.

I worked for a startup that I know is in shaky grounds. While I hope they recover and do great, they also suddenly have freelance "journalists" writing positive things about them in the press, and I'm 99% sure it's paid PR via VC connections (especially given that I know for a fact the publication - TheStreet.com - has ties to the NYC VC community). Meanwhile, because it's not a super well known company, there's not a lot of opinions out there one way or the other on it so when you Google its name you just read these few very positive pieces about it. Now, this may be just paranoia, but we as an industry should be vigilant that VCs don't try to run pump-and-dumps on their weaker holdings. It will benefit nobody but bad VCs and will harm the public and the industry's reputation, and due to lockups it's unlikely it will benefit the typical employee with common shares anyway.

I read an article about these mini-IPOs in the WSJ and it's saying "Democrats like it because it empowers the little guy, Republicans like it because it removes regulation." They also tried to spin it as "VCs HATE this! Average investors can take over instead now!" I don't trust Wall Street and I don't trust the SEC's ability to regulate them, so when the rules change I assume that Wall St is getting their way rather than the reverse. If the Republicans, Democrats, and Wall St all love a new piece of regulation, I assume the public's about to get screwed.

ditonal··on The Hackathon Fast Track: From Campus to Silicon Valley
That's because most hackathans can't decide whether they want to be hackathons or pitchathons. As you have picked up, they really can't be both. Hacking is experimental, and it's fun, and it definitely is not optimized around impressing a VC or a journalist in 3 minutes or less. If you wanted to be a true hackathon, you would ban the investors and journalists and really ban judging altogether and just have everyone show everyone else their projects. Even the idea of "fun" is different between the two crowds, with the hacker crowd expecting the "fun" part to be the cool hacks themselves, and the journalist/finance crowd expecting the fun part to be the boozing up and making plans for how you spend your millions after you focused on optimizing a commercial product (ususally with more emphasis on marketability and monetization potential than cool tech). If you want to "win" a hackathon i.e. impress a VC/Angel/CEO/Journalist, of course you should prepare beforehand, it's extremely difficult to verify cheating and very little real technology can be built in that timespan and that environment (party wooo!). You should also focus way more on the design and pitch then on the functionality, since the judges only have the time to evaluate the design/pitch. The good news is you can also treat the pitchatons like a hackathon and just ignore the judging/prizes, they can still be nice networking events regardless and times to learn some new things/APIs. Or you can try to game the prizes, but either way I wouldn't take them too seriously. How many hackathon projects turn into anything real anyway?

The current Hackathon culture is indicative of a general tech and investing culture of picking "hot" ideas made by charismatic teams over people doing true technological innovation which takes sustained, serious effort. The real innovation is what ends up making an impact, but the little prototype parties can be a good stepping stone into the industry.

ditonal··on After Snowden, the NSA Faces Recruitment Challenge
AdWords is basically a listing, directed at the most appropriate audience. You seem to be mixing up advertising and marketing.
ditonal··on After Snowden, the NSA Faces Recruitment Challenge
I don't disagree that there is huge room for unethical behavior in these corporations, and we as citizens and employees need to be vigilant about them. I just don't think engineers working on ad-tech because it pays well is necessarily terrible.
ditonal··on After Snowden, the NSA Faces Recruitment Challenge
You don't make any case for your argument. If one person is making a car, and another person is looking to buy a car, you are contributing value to society by matching them up to make a transaction.

I don't dispute that advertising can be unethical, or that many of these big tech companies have faced some difficult decisions and debatably have made the wrongs ones. But you can do unethical things in any industry, and advertising is not fundamentally unethical.

ditonal··on After Snowden, the NSA Faces Recruitment Challenge
Personally, I think the idea that Google/Facebook are hurting people by paying talented engineers a lot to work on ads is just not true. I think that if you act ethically (which is admittedly a question mark sometimes for any big corporation) respecting the market can often do the most social good.

People who were doing silly work making video games pushed the boundaries of parallel processing, created the GPU industry, and now that is relied on for serious scientific research. People making social networks so college freshman could date made tools to help those fighting authoritarian governments connect and created infrastructure technology to work on big data problems the governments might face on social issues.

Who did more to help the Asian Tigers raise from poverty to economic superpowers? Peace Corps people distorting local economies with their help, or people investing in local infrastructure because it was good value for them to make money??

What's better for the world, besides your conscious, working for a soup kitchen for work that can be done for $10/hr, or freelancing for $50/hr and donating that to the soup kitchen to give someone with less skills a job and the soup kitchen $40 remaining to buy supplies they need?

Finally, a lot of really smart people end up going in to law or finance because that's where the money is. Even if making consumer ad-tech doesn't sound quiet as noble as researching novel energy, if it encourages people to start entering fields where they are building things rather than creating more regulation for things, it's probably a net-positive. I really doubt that this idea that engineers should be this monastic underclass is so great for society. I constantly hear programmer say their salary is "inflated", to which I respond "if you feel overpaid, give your money to a good charity, don't roll over for the uber rich tech-exec/VC in charge."

If you want to make a positive impact on the world, respecting market efficiency is underrated.

ditonal··on The Terrible Technical Interview
Do you realize that there was a class-action lawsuit where the "competitors" Google, Apple, Adobe etc were working together to not poach each other's employees? You're acting like I'm a conspiracy nutjob when there were emails from Eric Schmidt and Steve Jobs where they admitted they were illegally colluding.

Do you realize that many "competing" startups have the same VC firms investing in them who don't want bidding wars between their engineers?

They want new talent but they don't want their current talent bouncing around for more money.

ditonal··on The Terrible Technical Interview
Strongly but respectfully disagree, see my comment which is sitting at the bottom because it ruffled some feathers.
ditonal··on The Terrible Technical Interview
Sure. In general, I am not against tough interviews. I just think that if you have elite hiring standards, you better be an elite company making elite offers. But you can't say "we only hire the best of the best!" and then comp negotiation rolls around and you say "well, this is market salary, but since we're a startup....".

I think some of these average companies should recognize themselves for what they are and be more accepting of average candidates. Give some new people in the industry a chance, train some entry-level people, especially if the work you're doing is not really cutting edge tech but just web apps or data analysis stuff that bright but not world-class people can learn with practice.

Also, companies should just focus more on candidate experience. I have interviewed and been rejected by Facebook a few years back. They did expect me to jump through hoops, but in general, they had a few original questions, I felt like they had a great candidate experience with polite recruiters, they put me up in a nice hotel and expensed it instantly, and I knew that if I did get through those hoops they were going to pay me a lot of money. I didn't get it, but I felt fine afterwards. I'm angry at all the average companies that don't do any of that but think they're entitled to put you through the same grinder. My only big criticism of companies like Facebook is they should give more feedback so you feel like you got something to improve upon. Also, I know Zuckerberg campaigns hard for H1Bs, but when Facebook is paying people what they're paying, I assume he genuinely does want to find the world's best and is not just trying to undercut labor. Although most H1Bs are in fact about undercutting labor, and the simple solution is to change it to an auction rather than a lottery and give them more time to look for new jobs before they have to leave. (note, I do not work for Facebook, I interviewed there once and got rejected but had a massively more positive experience with them than most companies. Google is also an excellent company to interview for, I'm sure there are some others but not many).

ditonal··on The Terrible Technical Interview
In my experience, a lot of companies are combining _all_ these things. So you're expected to do a phone interview, a test project/coding test, a whiteboard test, and the management brown-nosing at the end of it where you get to pitch that you've studied a hard technical skill your whole career just because you're so passionate about getting woken up at 3AM on PagerDuty to build _their_ vision, and definitely not because you expect to be paid for your time and skill. The fact that you realize money exists and can be used to pay for things like housing, education, and healthcare means you're not truly passionate about technology.

The worst is the NYC tech scene where they have the exact same standards (which they cargo-cult from the west coast), but they decided not to bring over that aspect where engineers are respected and valued. Instead they borrowed the west coast interview and combined it with the east-coast finance style where programmers are considered clerical workers and cost centers.

NYC is actually a fun city to interview in because since it combines so many different cultures, you can't even study for an interview because 5 different companies will give you 5 different interviews. Finance companies still love brainteasers and they _love_ mutexes, seriously, if you're interviewing at a finance shop just memorize Java Concurrency in Practice and the producer/consumer wikipedia article, because they are reading questions from there, even though when you show up on your first day you'll have been better off having read Spring in Action and Headfirst Enterprisey Design Patterns or whatever.

In general I love how these companies have elite hiring standards but incredibly mediocre interviews. You get asked the same questions over and over again by these companies. Find the biggest sum in a list, find two items in a list that sum to a given number, sort a list of integers/strings but keep integers where integers were and strings where strings were, copy files with ids to all servers with ids, etc. What's the difference between an abstract base class and an interface (by a Python/Node shop), what is a closure, etc etc. I've heard so many of the same questions repeated over and over. They have "high bars" for their candidates but apparently their interviewers can just use the first link off of Google or re-use whatever Facebook was asking in 2010 when they got rejected by them.

And then at the end we have a "tech talent shortage". Whatever happened to that part where we claimed a false negative wasn't a big deal? (glad the article calls this attitude out).

Tech hiring is totally broken and then they claim there's a shortage. There definitely is a shortage of qualified interviewers, not so much a shortage of qualified candidates. I have a friend who I mentored into the industry, she's very smart but absolutely a junior engineer, and yet she starts a new job and was doing interviews with _no_ training 3 months later. They just threw her into the lion's den and expected her to figure it out.

Coding tests are another great one because the exact same people who talk about the importance and value of data throw all of that out the window when it comes to evaluating them. There is no calibration or standards, generally. One person is offended by a hardcoded file path but doesn't care about whether you have tests, and another person is the direct opposite. Many people expect you to write extensive optimizations for the 100Kb input file you were given, another person sees that as absurd premature optimization. Whether you make it through a code screen is entirely tied to whether your coding style happens to jibe with whoever is reviewing you.

Again, the West Coast is better because at least compensation packages reflect the hoops you have to jump through and the monkey dances you have to have learned on cue. On the East Coast, anybody paying attention is desperately trying to get into management by the time they're 30 because to do otherwise is to be humiliated and infantalized during the interview process _and_ during your tenure working there. My simple solution to all this nonsense is to make sure your CTO and head tech managers are being made to jump through all the same hoops with all the same standards. Drop this whole "Oh, the CTO is a _manager_ role, he shouldn't have to worry about all that." (again, more of an East Coast attitude).

Another incorrect thing tech companies claim that benefits them at the expense of labor that engineers brainlessly parrot: "false positive are expensive because firing is hard". No, it isn't, I've seen many people fired very easily the second they're not up to standards. At worst they're instantly let go because it's at-will employment. At best, their given some absurd Performance Improvement Plan that establishes a paper trail so they can fire them without severance. And if your employer tries to tell you people have come off of those things, I have news for you, people lie, and liars are good at reaching senior management positions.

Something else is how you can put in hours and hours of your life, and get _no_ feedback, because telling you how you scored on an interview might expose them to legal liability. Let's be real, the legal liability is when they reject qualified people for things like "culture fit", and if your interview process exposes you to legal liability, maybe it's because it's illegal and unethical.

Another thing tech companies should consider is, instead of paying insane money to recruiters to be pushy sales people who are trying to dupe engineers into their low-paying positions, maybe just redirect that money to the engineer instead, it's 2015, the days that sleazy recruiter types are necessary to try to fast-talk an engineer into a position that's not good for him are over because we have the internet and we can read your terrible Glassdoor reviews.

I'm convinced one huge reason all this happens is to discourage job-hopping, because in this market, liquidity would probably help salaries move up faster.

I know I sound bitter, but again, these are the exact same companies running to the taxpayers to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of middle class Americans money to pay to solve their tech shortage crisis. Yet they absolutely refuse to evaluate their own hiring processes. And a huge chunk of engineers just eat up all this dogma about how hiring is hard and these processes are necessary, and don't think for one second that all these processes are totally designed to please the employer at the expense of engineers being treated well. In a few years, there will be another recession and we're all going to be "rightsized" away, so, demand to get treated well while you still can.

ditonal··on Video games beat interviews to recruit the very best
No CodeJam victories or at the top of the TopCoder leaderboard? Extensive Coursera certificates? No-hire. Plus I'm beginning to doubt that you've even solved several Project Euler problems in a variety of functional programming languages.
ditonal··on The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley
There's no doubt she was playing the same games. Doesn't change the fact that she was discriminated against for being a woman, and in retaliation she's looking for the millions she wasn't paid and letting all of us lowly engineers know what games the VCs are playing.
ditonal··on The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley
Wrong, I do have facts on my side, and we do have a big chunk of the story because it's being aired out in a high profile court case for those of us paying attention.

I've been to several VC-funded companies that involved things like excessive drinking, happy hours as part of the interviews, etc. For some bizarre reason involving an algorithm called Future Founders that looks for potential founders, I also got invited to a VC lunch where they talked about these strategies, ways to effectively outsource, etc. I am going to write a tell-all about it eventually but I'm still too mid-career for it to be a good idea.

VCs are throwing around a lot of intangibles and "we just can't know for sure" for why there field is 96% male, and yet the woman who objectively outperforms them doesn't get promoted. You can easily fact check the sexism I'm talking about by just looking up top VC firms and scrolling through their list of partners, and I would also recommend every tech employee look at the gender makeup of their board of directors, and reading more about this case.

Are you joking about saying her qualifications are debatable? She has an engineering degree from Princeton, an MBA and JD from Harvard, and the only thing that prevents her from having a track record of successful investments is the sexism being demonstrated in this case!

96% male, paying yourselevs $3 million a year but running to Democrats like Obama and DeBlasio to spend taxpayer money to fill your "talent shortage", harassing and retaliating against the few female VCs you do have, I do see sickening behavior, and the reason you can't is because you're a corporate shill.

ditonal··on The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley
Very convenient that this 'bad egg' in VC happens to be one of the 4% women in the field, and who again, seemed to do a far, far more competent job at the actual job description of picking the right companies to invest in, rather than total intangibles like 'thought leadership' and 'owning the room'. Read more articles about the case, read about how she wanted to invest in Twitter but they picked a bunch of losers instead, and still ignored her for promotion for intangibles that can straightfowardly be construed as gender-biased.
ditonal··on The Ellen Pao Trial and Silicon Valley
I don't see how you could possibly not see how it has larger implications. For years we've been told that the reason there's no women in tech is because of all us sexist brogrammers, despite the typical programmer being the opposite of a 'bro', while the VCs very much resemble them, and somehow VCs being 96% male with most top firms having NO women as partners slips by unnoticed. VCs intentionally create frat house cultures at the tech companies they invest in because they assume it saves them money to hire misfit programmers who need a workplace to provide a social life rather than act like processionals and demand professional compensation, and that frat house culture is also antagonistic to people who aren't young males. Finally, I don't see how you could read a case where a VC firm made mis-step after mis-step, and a highly qualified woman suggested they invest in winners like Twitter only to be ignored, and brushed off for invites to the Democrats the VCs are in bed with like Al Gore, and not see how she clearly as an extremely strong case of gender discrimination against a rich and powerful sect of elite VCs who have hidden their sickening behavior in the shadows for far too long.
ditonal··on Scrum seems to be mostly about having better alibis
The author challenged your perspective and you provided no rebuttal. Neither side has any evidence, but in my anecdotal experience I agree with you. I've worked in pretty much every type of tech organization imaginable and the ones that trusted developers across the development spectrum fared best. The ones that had managers handle priorities and wanted heads down coders to implement fared worse, by far. There is an incredible amount of craftsmanship in software, and often times developers are the best product managers because a passion for product is what led them to learn to develop in the first place. Cutting them out of everything but the coding is a mistake, except for a smaller subset of coders who do prefer a heads down role. You can find good spots for them on the right team, but if you don't you end up with a lot of well written code that solves the wrong problem.
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