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curiousgeorgio

711 karma · joined February 8, 2014

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curiousgeorgio··on You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
I appreciate you proving my point about extremist outliers, the ones who don't represent the majority of either side, yet receive all the media attention (and association with whichever side is currently being vilified).

> when someone in a group voices radical opinions and calls for violence it represents the groups view when said group is not distancing itself from these views

When "the other side" has an interest in associating you with extremists and refuses to listen to you repeatedly denounce the actions of those extremists, there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. Again, the demagoguery and parallels to the McCarthy era are troubling.

curiousgeorgio··on You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
> And of the two sides, only one is actively trying to restrict the freedom of people based on skin, religion and sex. Only one side is arguing for violence against weaker people, like fugitives and migrants.

I sincerely don't think either of the two sides is advocating for those things (ignoring a very few extremists - on both sides - with malicious intent, who don't represent the majority).

I do see those issues mentioned a lot in the public debate, but mostly in the context of straw man arguments repeated as a sort of battle cry, and to denigrate "the other side".

It was a whole lot easier to push McCarthyism than it ever was to convincingly prove you weren't a communist.

curiousgeorgio··on Solar is now ‘cheapest electricity in history’, confirms IEA
Curious to hear your take on the Democratic Party's recent reversal on their stance regarding nuclear[1].

It seems to me that if a group of people who were once so vehemently against nuclear for decades (few people were more vocal in opposition to it) finally realized that their fight against climate change simply isn't practical without nuclear, then why are some people still so against it?

You couldn't ask for a more powerful endorsement than the one from nuclear's (former) greatest critic.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2020/08/23/after-48...

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
The objections you're raising (and repeated on sites like the one you posted) are a matter of interpretation of the law, and people on both sides of the political spectrum are now realizing that the law needs clarification. It is not a settled matter by any means, and our lawmakers are still debating the issue.

When a company like Twitter censors the president of the United States, while also embedding their own editorial comments over the content he posted, those actions could easily be seen as falling outside 230 (even if courts haven't decided that in the past). No one denies the fact that the internet today is very different from when 230 was drafted, and from a moral standpoint, we absolutely need more clarification codified into the law.

If your town's public square were seized by one of the richest companies in the world, and they began exerting political control over who was allowed to speak in the town square, it would certainly raise some red flags and likely encourage legal changes (even if, for a time, it was perfectly legal).

The 230 debate isn't even the core of my argument (if you read my previous comments). The point is, whether through legal means or simply by way of market pressure, we should not be allowing these companies to control the political discussion in such heavy-handed ways. Diversity of opinion is diversity, and we need more of it - not less (it's ironic how some push so hard for diversity, yet seem to think we can't handle it when it comes to speech).

I'm sure it's hard to imagine, but if they started silencing liberal views, there's no doubt there would be an uproar among democrats. Apart from any legal changes that may come, we vote with our clicks and platform usage, and there's a growing number of people who are tired of these political censorship games, so they're leaving for other platforms with less political bias. As censorship increases, that will likely accelerate.

This is the last of my comments in this thread.

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
I never stated or implied that Section 230 barred censorship. It does, however, protect service providers from the liability that a publisher would take on for publishing content that otherwise should be censored. As these companies voluntarily embrace more censorship, they are calling into question their status as "service providers" since they are effectively operating as publishers; i.e., not protected under 230.

> there has never been a set of free speech protections “normally recognized by content platforms”

I agree; legally there hasn't been anything like that, but in the past, those platforms were demonstrably more reluctant to censor political content (e.g., views that didn't align with the company's political views) because they knew that more active involvement might jeopardize their classification as neutral platforms (along with their protections under 230 as described above). In effect, they stayed out of politics not by law, but out of fear of being forced to censor all content if they became "publishers". Now that machine learning has made the censoring part easier, they're less concerned about that happening. However, at the moment they want to have their cake and eat it too – controlling content as they wish while also enjoying the protections of 230.

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
> Where is the line for you when a threat of violence is equivalent to violence?

The line is "imminent lawless action" [1], with case law clarifying that "advocacy of illegal action at some indefinite future time" is not considered "imminent" (and therefore protected free speech). It's a pretty clear line, and one that most of the censored material being discussed objectively does not cross.

Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc. are within their rights as private companies to enforce content rules as they wish, but these recent censorship actions have strong implications as to their protections under Section 230, and are alarming insofar as they represent a trend that crosses the line of free speech protections normally recognized by the government and content platforms.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
> Some of us want to stop easily predictable violence before it gets to the point of actual violence.

Are you being serious? I honestly can't tell. This has played out in countless movies and books, and the result is never good. It has also played out in real life, and the result is even worse.

> What matters is the actual practice...

Bingo! Sounds like maybe you're beginning to see the error in trying to police thoughtcrime. It's the actions that matter, not the beliefs alone.

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
> When it starts to get dangerous, yes. People are inspired toward violence when they believe...

I see this argument a lot, but it fails to address the clear distinction between beliefs and actions. If people are actually violent, we have clear laws to deal with those actions.

If the argument is that certain beliefs shouldn't be allowed because they could be construed as "inspiring violence", then I'd love to hear about how tolerant you are towards Islam's idea of jihad or countless others who believe violence is justified in circumstances that you disagree with.

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
History is more full of examples where censorship has lead to tyranny and the downfall of civilizations.
curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
Does it really matter if some people believe in QAnon?

If enough people decide that the COVID vaccine is important enough for everyone to receive (regardless of their personal beliefs), then that will be codified into law. No need for censorship to try and manipulate public perception.

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
> We've got to this place because the people with wrong ideas were succeding.

Hate to break it to you, but if those ideas are succeeding, maybe they weren't wrong after all...

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
> Yet, at the same time, there are other people that will watch it and 100% believe it

When has that ever not been the case? Fortunately there are natural barriers preventing most people with wild ideas from gaining enough support to be a detriment to society. Should I really care if someone else chooses to believe x, y, or z in the face of contradictory evidence? If they try and do something public with a wrong idea, their failure will be the teacher, not me.

curiousgeorgio··on YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
Nope. It basically fuels the Streisand effect, both for what is really true, and for what some people believe to be the hidden truth. This kind of censorship has the opposite effect of what it claims to do.

The real truth stands up to all scrutiny, and that scrutiny is an essential part in arriving at the truth.

curiousgeorgio··on US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill
> Demanding brownies and joints for "medical use" is just straight up dishonest.

100% agree.

curiousgeorgio··on US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill
Page 160, direct quote:

"violent crime increased 20% from 2012 to 2017"

If you graph the data presented in table 46, the increasing trend – specifically in violent crime since 2012 – becomes very clear.

curiousgeorgio··on US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill
> I'm curious to learn why you oppose legalization

For starters, a 20% increase in violent crime and significant increases in hospitalizations[1] directly related to marijuana use are two concrete examples. There are many more less-direct negative effects (e.g., insurance rates increasing for everyone due to marijuana-related accidents/injury) that probably aren't immediately reflected in public data, but are still detrimental to society.

[1] https://cdpsdocs.state.co.us/ors/docs/reports/2018-SB13-283_...

curiousgeorgio··on US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill
It's important to keep in mind that it's not as clear as many of these headlines make it sound.

By the numbers in the links you provided, those supporting legalization for medical use only (which I do) represent a significant portion (> 1/3) of those lumped into the broader "support legalization" category. At the same time, many people interpret that broader category as supporting legalization of recreational use, which nationwide, has just 59% support.

Also important to note that public support is much lower in some states, and as a federal republic, those individual states have (and should continue to have) the power to decide for the citizens who live there.

curiousgeorgio··on US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill
> ...illustrates how out of touch legislators are with voters. If there was a nationwide referendum on legalizing (not just decriminalizing) it would pass in a landslide today.

In your own echo chamber, that may be true, but I hope you understand, there's a large number of voters (myself included) who oppose legalization. They may not be as vocal about it online, but their votes count just as much as yours.

curiousgeorgio··on When tipping was considered un-American (2015)
Right, which is why the minimum wage doesn't solve the problem (it may affect other things, but doesn't directly solve any of the issues with tipping). I was referring more to legislation that would limit/discourage restaurants from receiving tips (or at least communicating the expectation of tips).
curiousgeorgio··on When tipping was considered un-American (2015)
Do you really think a higher minimum wage would end the expectation of tipping? Asking honestly, because I just don't see that as a solution to this problem. There's a discussion to be had around minimum wage, but that feels like an entirely separate issue.
curiousgeorgio··on When tipping was considered un-American (2015)
I still tip for the reason you mention, but I believe the change either needs to be made voluntarily by restaurants (as some are starting to do) or through legislation.
curiousgeorgio··on When tipping was considered un-American (2015)
Count me as firmly in the anti-tipping camp. The article fails to mention the fact that tipping actually creates an environment where more prejudice (not less) can be exposed. If you aren't a stereotypical "good-looking" female server, you will statistically earn far fewer tips. The same goes for people working in the kitchen (as the article mentions).

If your servers (or anyone working in the restaurant) demand higher wages, pay them the fair wage and charge what it costs to operate at that level. The expectation of a tip feels similar to the hidden fees charged by wireless carriers so they can advertise a much lower rate.

curiousgeorgio··on It’s OK to Not Care About Politics
And yet, the point you’re making is itself entirely political (just pointing that out). Many would disagree on the premise that it’s not the government’s job to be involved in any of those things. And that’s just as valid as your viewpoint.

Also: downvoting something only because you disagree with it doesn’t help anyone. In fact, it’s one step on a path towards more oppression, not less.

curiousgeorgio··on I accidentally built a nudity/porn platform
Yes, look at Amazon Rekognition. I use it (very successfully) for a website that used to encounter similar issues with file upload abuse.

In my case, image uploads aren't mandatory for users, but they are very helpful in identifying the spammers (for some reason, the spammers almost always try to upload images that get filtered, so it makes it easier to spot them). That, combined with an IP check (getipintel.net) has almost completely eliminated the spam issues on my site.

curiousgeorgio··on Blackstone to Acquire Ancestry.com for $4.7B
You forgot #3: if posthumous baptism actually caused harm, it would mean that whichever belief system is "right" punishes people for choices outside their own control (i.e., the actions of others).

Even if that's in the realm of possibility, it sounds pretty unreasonable in the context of deciding one's eternal fate.

curiousgeorgio··on When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]
> When a customer refunds your paid app...

(nitpick) The use of the verb "refund" seems confusingly wrong in this sentence. Neither the customer nor the paid app is paying back any money. I know it's Twitter, but it'd make a lot more sense to say "When Apple refunds a customer of your paid app..."

curiousgeorgio··on Orthodox Privilege
Please stop putting words in other people's mouths or implying that someone is associated with racism when they're stating their beliefs and defending those beliefs with principles. It takes a more nuanced understanding of reality to accept the fact that someone can miss certain aspects of the past while at the same time acknowledging the imperfections of the past.

The freedom to express ideas - even controversial ones - is at the heart of a truly free society. A viewpoint based on sound principles can be true, while also being offensive to someone or a group of people. That doesn't make the viewpoint wrong. A doctor who objectively describes how a person's weight may be detrimental to their health is stating a medical fact, even though it may be deeply offensive to the patient.

To imply that taking offense (over "semantics" used by some people who express their views) is somehow equivalent to the unjust laws mentioned in Letter from Birmingham Jail is, in its own way, a mockery of what Martin Luther King Jr was fighting for. He defended free speech, even when it was offensive at the time. In our time, we speak up about our beliefs and some see them as offensive, but those freedoms should be defended all the same. Publicly shaming people based on false interpretations, and in many cases causing harm to them (as we've seen in the news recently in response to conservative viewpoints being expressed) is an obstruction of those liberties.

If you disagree with someone, debate them on principle. On the other hand, if you pretend that what they're saying is invalid because someone else chooses to be offended by it, you are no longer talking about objective reality. Without a basis in objective reality, public discourse becomes nothing short of a shouting match with rules that change with the wind. We've seen an explosion of that kind of behavior recently on social media.

Instead of being so adamant about picking sides and being "right", let's all listen a little more - to all viewpoints. Let's not paint someone as the devil because they disagree with us (or because we've given them a label based on other people with that viewpoint), but instead offer them a bit of respect and understand that their intentions may be just as honorable as our own, albeit colored by different circumstances and experience.

I'm not going to respond again to this thread.

curiousgeorgio··on Orthodox Privilege
> I'm not making an argument about beliefs, but about perception.

* sigh * I miss the day when we could state our beliefs and defend them on principle rather than on perception, trying to guess which groups may choose to be offended.

I guess I'm old fashioned.

curiousgeorgio··on Orthodox Privilege
I disagree with almost everything you just said.

You're saying that "because X group said Y and X group also does Z, Y supports Z".

Your premise is based on a genetic fallacy, and your argument implies a false dichotomy. Your claims are hasty generalizations with insufficient evidence.

curiousgeorgio··on Orthodox Privilege
Perhaps you could re-read the article this discussion is about. You're misrepresenting (and projecting other ideas onto) a viewpoint that you seem to fundamentally misunderstand.

Semantics do matter, especially when specifics are used to highlight division, and that division is used to justify more violence (such as murders committed by the very people who are protesting).

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