codeflow2202

Sonnet3.5 is still a million times better than 4o

It seems that someone has convinced many of you (on HN) that negotiations with Russia would inevitably lead to an attack on NATO countries within Europe. As a result, some now feel justified in mocking or harassing those who believe that continuing a seemingly unwinnable war—at the cost of thousands of European lives—is not the best course of action. Ironically, this stance was widely held by left-leaning individuals not long ago.

What disgusts me isn’t the fear of a potential Russian attack, but how easily people can be manipulated into reversing their beliefs while still considering themselves morally righteous, and feel justified into mocking and silencing people holding their past ideology.

I've seen the decline in Italy of young people going out in the evening to meet new people. They are all buffed with splendid livers, but barely get laid, and spend most of their time playing monopoli and drinking tea.

This is often false. Many people following this way of eating are still sick, weak, and often skinny fat. I was one of them. Of course this is going to be better than a McDonald diet, but it does a terrible job at fixing problems for people with any kind of metabolic problems.

Younger persons don't have the knowledge and wisdom to assess what previous generations did. Their own thoughts sounds more like pre-conceived, propaganda driven, ready made sentences. (I know because I have been there and only know realize how dumb and manipulable I was, and probably still are. At least now I can see it).

As time passes the environment, morals and the goals of a population can change drastically, and its behavior is attuned by those variables.

Anyone born in the boomer generation would probably have behaved exactly like them, for the good and the bad.

The professors in that article might be speaking like that, making amend to the young, but deep inside every generation thinks to be smarter than the previous and the successive ones.

You are supposing that recipes were passed down through books which is totally false. They were passed down in families and communities and were based to what was available at the time. Meat is more prevalent in recipes coming from regions where it was more available. Some other places have instead a fish based diet. In any way animal based food has always been preferred by every culture that didn't avoid it for religious reasons. Most cultures who have a plant based diet come from a recent past of extreme poverty and food deprivation.

EDIT: Of course as soon as meat got available, recipes that were before only affordable by a small circle, got picked up by a larger share of the population.

What meat eaters? If we are talking about health conscious people the ones eating meat will always have an advantage compared to people who eliminates food groups.

If you are comparing a health conscious vegan to the average fast food freak then yes, I can agree with you.

Still, the deficiencies caused by meat avoidance are usually more dangerous with worse consequences.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160316194551.h...

It's kinda happening already:

Ireland https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/22/northern... Netherlands https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/15/netherla... Belgium https://www.brusselstimes.com/251313/government-advisors-pro...

Gonna cite myself:

"People from the anglosphere comes with their own idea of health, which is for the most part originated by their past religious idea of purity more than rock solid science. Many of them can't accept studies which prove that a good life can sometimes also come out from what they view as a "sinful" behavior.

Old Italians never saw meat eating and alcohol consumption as a negative aspect of life and enjoyed it just because it was part of their culture.

And, against all these calvinist principles, they still enjoyed a pretty long life."

Thanks, I have admit that imagining an early 1900 shepherd "following a fad diet" made me laugh.

To be exact the ones putting money into meat replacements aren't produce farmers but the processed food giants.

People from the anglosphere comes with their own idea of health, which is for the most part originated by their past religious idea of purity more than rock solid science.

Many of them can't accept studies which prove that a good life can sometimes also come out from what they view as a "sinful" behavior.

Old Italians never saw meat eating and alcohol consumption as a negative aspect of life and enjoyed it just because it was part of their culture.

And, against all these calvinist principles, they still enjoyed a pretty long life.

I'm not aware of those studies so I can't judge. What meat are you talking about? From which country? Was it cheap supermarket meat or locally sourced from a trusted butcher? I hope all of those questions are taken into consideration when judging which foods we should avoid.

But still I don't buy this whole meat avoidance stunt. Most studies show only small effects linked to meat avoidance which can be usually be well explained by the fact that vegetarians are usually health conscious people:

https://snipboard.io/Be32mu.jpg

https://tinyurl.com/57uv9raw

While for some people a plant base diet might well be good if well constructed and supplemented this is not always true on a population level. The average person isn't drs Greger disciple and will not wake up early in the morning to be measuring his foods to be sure that his intakes are following the RDAs.

Combine that with the fact that nutrients from vegetables are not as easily accessible by our bodies, meaning that for some people with digestion problems it could cause dangerous deficiencies.

And last but not least, yes meat can be contaminated or polluted, so you should be very careful when choosing your cuts. But the same can be said about vegs and fruits I'm afraid:

"European citizens have been exposed to a dramatic rise in the frequency and intensity of residues of the most toxic pesticides on fruits and vegetables sold in the EU. This report and its primary conclusion contradict official claims that toxic pesticides use is declining and that food residue levels are under control. This report also exposes a complete failure by Member States and the European Commission to implement EU Regulation and protect consumers. "

https://www.pan-europe.info/sites/pan-europe.info/files/publ...

This hypothesis is still part of some anti-meat propaganda. They start from the idea that red meat is bad, and then they retroactively try to adjust their "science" with creative solutions. Research done in Italy about the Sardinians showed that the people who got to live longer where specifically the shepherds. They had a very peculiar life style which brought them to get much more exercise and to eat more animal sourced foods. The remaining townfolks had a more "average" lifespan even though they shared the same genes.

My favorite spread as a kid (and still now) is basically mashed chicken liver: https://memoriediangelina.com/2014/11/21/crostini-di-fegatin...

Yes, meat consumption in the USA is huge. But I think the greatest difference between the 2 countries is our distrust towards food processing. Italy is a country very resilient to innovations which can be sometimes a sin, but some other times a blessing. But we are losing that too. When I was a kid mcDonalds could barely survive here. Nowadays new ones are popping everywhere, and young people completely lost this culture we had about genuine foods.

When speaking about Sardinia they keep saying that their diet was mostly vegetarian:

"The classic Sardinian diet is plant based, consisting of whole-grain bread, beans, garden vegetables, and fruits. Meat is largely reserved for Sundays and special occasions. Sardinians drink wine moderately."

Truth is that the Shepherds (the centenaries are mostly found in this group) were actually eating more animal protein and fat compared to the rest of the population.

https://snipboard.io/gbi9JY.jpg

They can keep lying to most people just because you can't understand Italian but whenever people from those towns are interviewed they always repeat that they were not vegetarians. Here a quick translation from this yt video:

Graziano who got to 102 got asked if he got to 102yo because he had always followed a mediterranean diet. He asked what's that? It means that you always ate vegetables. Vegetables are bad for you, I ate the grass of 100 sheeps because I ate the sheeps. And indeed he only ate meat, meaning that this whole alimentation thing should be checked again.

https://youtu.be/LQTocSMm7tw?t=647

We have our problems in Europe too. Our food is getting more and more contaminated. https://www.pan-europe.info/sites/pan-europe.info/files/publ...

Combine this article with the other one about contamination of fruits and vegetables in Europe and we have a pretty bad picture of the situation:

European citizens have been exposed to a dramatic rise in the frequency and intensity of residues of the most toxic pesticides on fruits and vegetables sold in the EU. This report and its primary conclusion contradict official claims that toxic pesticides use is declining and that food residue levels are under control. This report also exposes a complete failure by Member States and the European Commission to implement EU Regulation and protect consumers.

https://www.pan-europe.info/sites/pan-europe.info/files/publ...

I get it from many things. Even this japanese ad for beer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4f8lm_5MBE

For anyone interested: When removing the dialogue audio channel from Twin Peaks episodes, it is nice to discover the rich tapestry of sound design hidden underneath. Listen to the sounds extracts these layers for you personal enjoyment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ZMZEaK4lQ

If volume matters then we are painting a worse situation for Tesla since they sold less than volvo

That's the name I think of every time someone talks about constant writing. He admits that he is emotionally very stable and doesn't suffer of ups and downs as most of the other writers.

But if I read the sources of your article I actually see interesting points in favor of the scavenger/hunter evolutionary pressure, not a vegetarian one: https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-f...

The other article does seem to be in favor of promoting a vegetarian view. But to me it seems incredibly lackluster: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S08999... To shorten it up: 1) Today we suffer of diet related disease 2) Other great apes are mostly vegetarians 3) Our digestive system is very similar to that of apes result: The recommendation that Americans consume more fresh fruits and vegetables in greater variety appears well supported by data on the diets of free-ranging monkeys and apes.

Previously our differences from apes have been correlated to the fact that we cook food:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272419339_Comparati...

Thus, humans are relatively poor among autoenzyme-dependent omnivores in digesting uncooked plant fiber. The human large intestine lies somewhere between that of the pig, a similar omni-vore, and the dog, a carnivore capable of consuming an omnivore diet that has a reduced cecum and short colon.

Also interesting: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/701477

I'm aware of the hype and the optimistic studies around vegan diets (as an ex vegan I've been through a lot on the topic). The problem with the vegan narrative is that it tends to focus on 2 main outcomes: weight management and the health of the circulatory system. This is fine and nobody doubts that compared to a typical diet composed of processed foods this is a great improvement. What the discourse is severely lacking is what are the shortcomings of this diet. You always get generic messages that you must be careful and keep an eye on b12, iodine, iron, zinc, vit d, calcium and b3 but we never had large studies about how well this warnings are being followed. Are you in an optimal weight? How about your lean mass? Any deficiencies? I couldn't find any large scale reliable study on these values. But by experience of myself and people I know (and by many people who had to stop this way of eating) it seems like it is a real problem, much more difficult to get around than the news outlets will make you believe.

It really depends. People living on the coast usually eats more fish, while inland people is more into pork. Olive oil is always used everywhere, just in the north there is a greater use of butter. Vegetables do get eaten but mostly as condiment of some other meat/fish or pasta. We indeed don't eat huge bowls of veggies as they make it sound. But we do eat a lot of seasonal fruit. And to add to the paradox, my region Umbria (which has the best longevity in Italy) is probably the Italian capital of cured meats.

Said who? You speak as a newagey vegan utopia believer. I wonder how some assertion like yours has ever been proven by anyone.

Homo as a specie is way older. We started using tools and hunting way before homo sapiens. And even if you want to cherry pick homo sapiens, agriculture is just a minor fraction of his history.

The last 12000 years maybe. We had 2.5 million years of hunting gathering before that. Only the very recent history is one of agriculture.

The problem is that many people start to develop problems in digesting many types of food that would normally be easily assimilated. The causes could be many but the most likely culprits are antibiotics and pesticides damaging the gut lining and flora. The consequence is that people is losing the ability to safely eat foods that would be normally considered safe and healthy. In all probability the reason that a meat only diet works for so many people it's that it is a subtype of low FODMAP diet. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22466-low-f...