boltzmann-brain

What you need to understand is that Stop Killing Games and future initiatives to come are about changing the law. You arguing about current law means nothing when the whole point is to change it.

You better not have a tool in your pocket that lets you make unregulated digital copies of any copyrighted document, movie, or song

Not in light of IP law which is what you're arguing about unknowledgably.

Exactly. People have been unsuccessfully ringing the bell on this ever since DeCSS. It's 25 years this month. The general population isn't informed about this, they don't care and they don't have the capacity to know and even if they did, they wouldn't want to know. Thankfully, people are slowly waking up to this. With an ECI like Stop Killing Games, you don't need the genpop to decide that this is bad. You just need a million good men and women. It's much easier to find a million people who understand something is a problem and sign an EU initiative than to find 6 billion people who will understand something is a problem AND vote with their wallet.

Probably the best comment I've seen in this subthread so far.

What ever exactly happened, ultimately this is just another corporation trying to disturb people in their ownership of their purchased property, in specific video games. Anyone who really thinks about this topic will start questioning why some company located on an island on the other side of the world should be dictating what I do or don't do with a cartridge or disc I paid for with my own money and which is in my possession. It's just ludicrous behavior from a group of power-hungry megalomaniacs. This is why it's important to claw back as much ownership in that space as possible. If you want things to move in the right direction, you should sign https://www.stopkillinggames.com/eci if you're an EU citizen, or support them in any other way if you're not. This stuff is important and will ultimately decide whether we own things in our life or not, as increasingly more items have critical features that are anchored in the digital world. Without stuff like that we will become digital paupers.

sorry, if you can't sell your game without stealing it back 10 years later then you shouldn't be selling it in the first place

> for a type that wraps another type

I think you are very confidently wrong here. Monads are not about wrapping types, as evidenced by the IO monad. You cannot say that a type is "wrapped" by the input-output system of a computer any more than you can say that a keyboard contains all possible character strings.

I am sorry to say but your comment is a cliche that's existed for at least the 15 years I've been using Haskell, where someone who doesn't understand a concept shows up, decries it as being a hoax and just a bogus complication on top of something simple, and while doing that displays not understanding it in the slightest.

But this existed before Haskell too, people have been doing what you're doing on the topic of structural programming, memory safe languages, regular expressions, dynamic html, ... html in the first place, microkernels, linux, unix, personal computers, minicomputers, computers, typewriters, looms, and electricity.

> GNUnet must use compartmentalization to protect sensitive information.

what's a good description of what they mean by that?

scala? why not haskell instead?

> It's an example

no, it's not. An example is something that happens. What you brought up is a fantasy.

> GTA being a great example of something that doesn't have perpetual licenses to their music.

that's wrong, because even if Rockstar removed some songs from some versions of their game, if you bought the disc version of the game, then guess what - the songs are still on there.

it is neither the consumers' nor SKG's fault that the richest company in the richest entertainment industry is unwilling to negotiate terms that don't scam the people purchasing their products.

> you've attacked me three times

if you're going to make stuff up and bring up things that don't stand up to the simplest scrutiny then that's going to be brought up. that's not an attack on you, but it definitely is a comment on the quality of points you bring to the discussion. if you want to make better points, it's as simple as: before typing "X" google for "X?" and then read the top result. otherwise it's just whataboutism.

There hasn't been competition to have the fastest chip for 4 generations.

To be fair they didn't make that argument, but thanks for the support none the less! Agreed, ad-hoc servers are a staple and a worked out problem. 99% of the time you have to go out of your way as a developer to make things not work in this way.

Thank you for your service! If you want to support even more, feel free to talk to others about it!

> Except it's not - it's a business problem. SKG would essentially ban the use of Oracle as an example

why are you using Oracle for video games? what's wrong with you?

> Or it would likely kill games like Rock band which have licensed audio.

Rock Band DOES work offline. Licensed audio in Rock Band is licensed in such a way that once a copy is sold the license allows the use of that copy in perpetuity. 100 years from now I'll still be able to pop in my Rock Band disc and play it, because that's how ownership works and the developer didn't get in the way of my ownership of my own property.

But when I said "It's a tech problem" I was answering someone who mentioned a tech problem.

Coming up with a different, non-tech problem as a counter-point to a whole discussion exclusively about a tech problem is not as smart as you think it is, and the examples you bring up aren't very good at all.

> Another way of looking at it is that only large companies will be able to conform

No, that's unmitigated nonsense. Just your first paragraph showed you have no idea what you're talking about, but now you're just stringing words together. The reason why only the largest companies can have these problems in the first place is because of their legacy technology integrations and pre-existing technology supplier agreements which they would have to re-negotiate. Remember, this is a scenario AFTER the initiative gets a million signatures, which is a year out, and AFTER the EU has legislated, which is another year at least, and AFTER the warning period which is several years. Even with the fastest possible timeline it's probably like 5 years of warning that things are going to change. And at that point anyone entering the space from the bottom as a new player is free to negotiate a deal which conforms with the market regulations going forward; if the technology suppliers don't want to negotiate realistic terms, they go out of business. While we're at it, large companies are also free to renegotiate their contracts to make them legal in the eyes of the legislation because contract survival terms are a standard staple in any technology supply agreement and if changes to market regulations make a contract unfit or illegal then renegotiations commence as a matter of course. But given the timeline of this going into effect they'll have renegotiated YEARS ahead of the deadlines.

This isn't a twitter poll. It's not going to go into effect 5 minutes after it's been posted. There will be AMPLE time for everyone to figure stuff out and change their paperwork, and the only companies really affected are the ones that already spend $1M+/year on legal anyways.

Citizens only, and anywhere in the world. If you're not a citizen but are a resident, you can support in another way - go to your friends who are EU citizens and ask them to sign! Even if they're not gamers, remember that it's about ownership in general. There are many other things that can and are being remotely shut down, such as cars, trains, implants for disabled people, etc. This is just the first step in regaining ownership of things you buy. Try asking a few people for support!

thank you for supporting it!

If the EU decides to build any legislation around SKG, they will give developers ample warning before things go into effect. Apple had years to prepare for USB C. This is still years out. So the answer is: negotiate compatible terms, or don't use the third party library.

This is merely an issue to begin with for companies that are absolutely massive, like Sony or Activision. Smaller developers just don't do stuff like that in general: you download the game and then you have the game.

Since the ask is for a reasonably working game, maybe as a developer in that position you can just cut out the functionality that depends on the library or replace the library with something similar or mock it out or use a static cache of request vs response for all possible requests. The technological possibilities are endless.

It's not like as developers we're these helpless infants who have never solved a problem in our lives. It's a tech problem, tech a solution to it, that's why you're a professional and not bush league.

Ultimately if someone can't figure out how to do their business without scamming people out of ownership then that's a skill issue. If they're not creative enough to figure it out, the business is doomed to begin with. Legislation often has the additional positive effect of ridding the market of people who shouldn't be there to begin with, like food trucks infested with cockroaches and pizza places that use fake cheese.

That's what Stop Killing Games is trying to do via cooperation with DGCCRF and other consumer agencies. If you like that, go to their website and learn how to support them.

i'm asking about what may happen when the illness isn't, in your words, usual

i wasn't talking about written law, i was talking about what people agree with. the law is something separate from that.

that's like saying if you bought a title to a bridge you would be within your legal right to resell it (via copying the title 100 times with a photo copier).

it's all just whatever people agree upon is the correct thing to do, and people don't agree that what you're saying is the correct thing to do.

they should do the same but for git repositories too

is it possible for a type 1 diabetic to not know and live their life fully untreated? By this I don't mean every type 1 diabetic, what I'm asking is whether it's possible for someone to be like this, due to their specific health circumstances.

The [recent CA legislation](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41665593) brought back the topic of Stop Killing Games which is an ongoing campaign to pass laws similar to the CA ban and much more.

If you want a very short exposition of what Stop Killing Games is, here's a ~1 minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHGfqef-IqQ

Ross Scott is best known for his youtube series "Freeman's Mind" where he plays Half-Life and narrates what Gordon Freeman must be thinking, with a lot of deeply philosophical considerations. It's a staple of YouTube. He's also been running a series called "Dead Game News" and that's how Stop Killing Games was born.

The other organizer, Damian, is a real-deal neckbeard dev and has pretty much done it all from BASIC on 8-bit micros to theorem provers and from video games to cryptography audits.

Here's the original intro to Stop Killing Games by Ross: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w70Xc9CStoE

And here's a subsequent FAQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEVBiN5SKuA

[Related discussion](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666381)

P.S. had to edit the title a tiny bit as it was a few chars over limit.

Thank you!

Regarding embed information, that's a great idea and I'll pass it on.

Indeed, the idea of ownership is a basic natural concept that lawyers are trying to erase with newspeak and nonsensical hidden terms. It's a concept that's been unchanged for millions of years, even before humans existed. If you disagree with me, try taking a bone away from a dog chewing on it. It even goes back to single-cell organisms: even the mitochondrium is just [a cell owned by another cell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiogenesis).

you're welcome - if you want to thank us, convince one EU citizen to sign the initiative!

the purchase of in-game items or currencies is a purchase like any other.

SKG organizer here. Something like this CA legislation was our "worst case scenario, everything else failed, at least we could do this much, we've compromised on everything" goal.

That is to say, now opponents can't push us to compromise to that level and our worst case scenario in case we pass anything at all is looking better.

We're really happy this is happening because it changes the Overton window for us and makes our case stronger and easier to argue for, as you say.

A lot of change has been happening in the past few months and even weeks with regards to the market and legislative situation around the problematic of SKG and while you can't ever fully attribute something, we hope that it's thanks to our actions. Ubisoft promising end of life offline modes for The Crew 2 and the third game in the series called Motorfest. Capcom bringing back Windows 7 era games that were lost to G4WL.

The "Ubisoft scandal" mentioned in the headline - specifically the unforced shutdown and resulting removal of functioning state from The Crew - is something that SKG have no doubt popularized. Now that we're at 350 000 signatures of a goal of 1 000 000 in our direct democracy initiative, companies and lawmakers are starting to take things seriously. And this is with a $0 budget. We're still in need of more signatures over the next 10 months to reach the goal, so if you're an EU citizen, go click the link Sniffnoy posted above and sign. Worth doing even if you're not a gamer, just to claw back some ownership rights from corporations worth billions of dollars, spreading out to all corners of technology, not just games.

If you want a very short exposition of what Stop Killing Games is, here's a ~1 minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHGfqef-IqQ

If you want a good, exhaustive intro to what SKG is about, this interview between a game developer and two SKG organizers is worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnpFqPGrgDk

Ross Scott is best known for his youtube series "Freeman's Mind" where he plays Half-Life and narrates what Gordon Freeman must be thinking, with a lot of deeply philosophical considerations. It's a staple of YouTube. He's also been running a series called "Dead Game News" and that's how Stop Killing Games was born.

The other organizer, Damian, is a real-deal neckbeard dev and has pretty much done it all from BASIC on 8-bit micros to theorem provers and from video games to cryptography audits.

Here's the original intro to Stop Killing Games by Ross: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w70Xc9CStoE

And here's a subsequent FAQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEVBiN5SKuA

If anyone has questions about SKG, I'll be checking the replies now and then.