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biosboiii

294 karma · joined July 6, 2022

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biosboiii··on Extracting AI models from mobile apps
I think you are starting off from the perfect direction, being a forward-engineer first, and then a reverse-engineer.

The community around Frida is a a) a bit small and b) a bit unorganized/shadowy. You cannot find that many resources, atleast I have not found them.

I would suggest you to use Objection, explore an app, enumerate the classes with android hooking list classes or android hooking search classes, then dynamically watch and unwatch them. That is the quickest way to start, when you start developing your own scripts you can always check out code at https://codeshare.frida.re/.

For everything else join the Frida Telegram chat, most knowledge sits there, I am also there feel free to reach out to @altayakkus

Oh and btw, I would start with Android, even though iOS is fun too, and I would really really suggest getting a rooted phone/emulator. For the Android Studio Emulator you can use rootAVD (GitHub), just install Magisk Frida. Installing the Frida gadget into APKs is a mess which you wont miss when you go root

biosboiii··on Extracting AI models from mobile apps
Your second note is very interesting, having looked at the model myself this is very plausible.

For models which use a lot of input nodes, a lot of "hidden layers" and in the end just perform a softmax this may get infeasible because of the amount of data you would have to transfer.

You may have inspired a second article :)

biosboiii··on Extracting AI models from mobile apps
But then you could compromise the GPU, probably :)

Look at the bootloader, can you open a console?

If not, can you desolder the flash and read the key?

If not, can you access the bootloader when the flash is not detected anymore?

...

Can you solder off the capacitors and glitch the power line, to do a [Voltage Fault Injection](https://www.synacktiv.com/en/publications/how-to-voltage-fau...)?

Can you solder a shunt resistor to the power line, observe the fluctuations and do [Power analysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_analysis)?

There are a lot of doors and every time someone closes them a window remains tilted.

biosboiii··on Extracting AI models from mobile apps
Thanks a lot :)

My general writing style is directed mainly towards my non-technical colleagues, which I wish to inspire to learn about computers.

This is no novelty, by far, it is a pretty standard use-case of Frida. But I think many people, even software developers, don't grasp the concept of "what runs on your device is yours, you just dont have it yet".

Especially in mobile apps, many devs get sloppy on their mobile APIs because you can't just open the developer tools.

biosboiii··on Extracting AI models from mobile apps
Author here, no clue about homeomorphic (or whatever) encryption, what could certainly be done is some sort of encryption of the model into the inference engine.

So e.g.: Apple CoreML issues a Public Key, the model is encrypted with that Public Key, and somewhere in a trusted computing environment the model is decrypted using a private key, and then inferred.

They should of course use multiple keypairs etc. but in the end this is just another obstacle in your way. When you own the device, root it or even gain JTAG access to it, you can access and control everything.

And matrix-multiplication is a computationally expensive process, in which I guess they won't add some sort of encryption technique for each and every cycle.

biosboiii··on Extracting AI models from mobile apps
Author here, it would be nice to claim that I did this on purpose but I really did not know it was open source.

I was rather interested in the process of instrumenting of TF to make this "attack" scalable to other apps.

biosboiii··on Extracting AI models from mobile apps
I think the comment author means offering inference via Firebase, with the model never leaving the backend.

This works, just like ChatGPT works, but has the downside of 1. You have to pay the computing for every inference 2. Your users can't access it offline 3. Your users will have to use a lot of data from their mobile network operator. 4. Your inference will be slower

And since SeeingAI infers the model every second, your and your customers bill will be huge.

biosboiii··on Extracting AI models from mobile apps
Hey, author here.

I understand that its not very clear if the neural net and its weights & biases are considered as IP, I personally think that if some OpenAI employee just leaks GPT-4o it isn't magically public domain and everyone can just use it. I think lawmakers would start to sue AWS if they just re-host ChatGPT. Not that I endorse it, but especially in IP and in law in general "judge law" ("Richterrecht" in german) is prevalent, and laws are not a DSL with a few ifs and whiles.

But it is also a "cover my ass" notice as others said, I live in Germany and our law regarding "hacking" is quite ancient.

biosboiii··on Show HN: I created a PoC for live descriptions of the surroundings for the blind
Thanx! Yeah, they should :) Would love to do this with CoreML on Apple devices, but my newest iPhone is a 7.

But if you subscribe, you may see me doing the same with a surveillance camera soon(isch) :)

biosboiii··on Show HN: I created a PoC for live descriptions of the surroundings for the blind
Check out my reverse-engineering/cracking of Microsoft's App just doing that, SeeingAI.

https://altayakkus.substack.com/p/you-wouldnt-download-an-ai

biosboiii··on The Qualcomm DSP Driver – Unexpectedly excavating an exploit
Qualcomm being Qualcomm, again and again and again.
biosboiii··on Show HN: I built an embeddable Unicode library with MISRA C conformance
Since MISRA is targetted at Automotive, as a software dev in the automotive space I would suggest adding the note that this is able to run on POSIX compliant OSes like QNX :)

If you would like to chat, hit me up.

biosboiii··on Listen to the whispers: web timing attacks that work
I did some research few weeks ago on the topic of database lookup timing side-channels, conclusion is: They don't really exist (for SELECT FROM WHERE commands atleast). https://altayakkus.substack.com/p/timing-side-channel-on-sql...
biosboiii··on Bhutan, after prioritizing happiness, now faces an existential crisis
is the more accurate baseline having food, 3 mortgages, a new phone and a laptop?
biosboiii··on Bypassing regulatory locks, hacking AirPods and Faraday cages
Found it out myself, https://binary.ninja/
biosboiii··on Bypassing regulatory locks, hacking AirPods and Faraday cages
Does anyone know which decompilation tool produces these graphs, as shown in the blog post?
biosboiii··on Waymo One is now open to all in Los Angeles
I am pretty sure that this emergency stop button is a regulatory requirement.
biosboiii··on All the data can be yours: reverse engineering APIs
Banning IP Ranges from datacenters is pretty easy and common, surprising they could not combat that.
biosboiii··on Launch HN: Skyvern (YC S23) – open-source AI agent for browser automations
you can use the official API for that, right? without having to pay ChatGPT and click pixels.
biosboiii··on Arm is canceling Qualcomm's chip design license
Thing is businesses don't work like side-projects do.

Qualcomm is more or less a research company, the main cost of their business is paying engineers to build their modems/SoCs/processors/whatever.

They have been working with ARM for the last, I dont know, 20 years? Even if they manage to switch to RISC-V, and each employee has negative performance impact of like 15% for 2-3 years this ends up in billions of dollars, because you have to hire more people or lose speed.

If corporate would force me to work with idk Golang instead of TypeScript I could certainly manage to do so, but I would be slower for a while, and if you extrapolate that on an entire company this is big $$.

biosboiii··on A CLI tool for management of Next.js applications
nothing specific about next.js but its widely used and this guy chose to provide a easy hands-free tool for that very popular framework
biosboiii··on Timing Side-Channel for SQL SELECT WHERE (?)
I don't want to clickbait, but I went down a rabbithole of answering my question if the timing of a SQL query, comparing to a string, can be used as a side-channel to more efficiently guess that string.

tl;dr is No. Enjoy :)

biosboiii··on 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor
I work in one of the biggest companies of the world (employee and revenue wise) and it's basically a run-off reaction of well-articulated desk employees jerking each other off that, telling each other that they are so very important.

And the common management approach to anything not working immediately is "throw another 1.000 employees into the project" and the middle-managers measure their success by how many employees they are managing so it's a train without breaks. Hope it goes bankrupt soon.

biosboiii··on Studies suggest a drug-free nasal spray could ward off respiratory infections
Evolution isn't nearly as perfect as you think it may be.

For an example, check your feet.

biosboiii··on How the EMV protocol beat skimming
Quick little article from me :)
biosboiii··on Ask HN: Visualize Software Architecture/Concepts
The problem is that the non-technical people are working as architects.
biosboiii··on Weight-loss drugs are causing people to spend less at the grocery store: study
Happy to see some positive news stories regarding Ozempic/Semaglutide.

I really dislike that most stories try to taint it in the "diet trend", "TikTok challenge" light, obesity is a serious illness which is extremely unhealthy and leads to many many preventable deaths, this drug is a miracle.

And yeah, there shortages, but then the drug stores shall give out this drug to those who need it the most, and not who pays the most. It's not like the US healthcare system is fair anyways. And also the suppliers can ramp up production (as they are already doing).

Friendly reminder: The STEP 5 trial of semaglutide showed that even in long-term usage a sort of "cutoff" BMI is reached, so even skinny/normal bodied people who take semaglutide don't drop to an anorexic level BMI, but stay above the 18.5 line (after which you are considered underweight) [1].

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02026-4/figures/2

biosboiii··on My daughter (7 years old) used HTML to make a website
Cloudflare Page Analytics Beacon without asking for my consent first.

Hopefully she has a heavy piggybank for my incoming GDPR lawsuit /s

biosboiii··on Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it
Whatever, it's never Lupus.
biosboiii··on How to validate a market with development boards and SD cards
The FAQ is hilarious.

He is writing this entire article to save 3-5k conformity tests, but bases his entire software on FreeBSD because "it's more commercially friendly.

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