battleangle

As usual, rather than offer actual counterpoints, you resort to ad hominem attacks and complete misrepresentation of what I stated.

- nowhere did I state issues in HK are internal to HK only. There's obvious influence by interested parties outside of HK as well.

- HK is under the CCP. Of course there's influence. I never stated this either. I stated that the influence is much less than what media would like you to belive.

- I specifically stated that 2 of the demands are unreasonable, and a third will never be tolerated by the CCP. The protest movement certainly isn't a united cause for Hong Kong as a whole. That's what I stated. Even in the recent local elections the pro-protest candidates garnered on average less than 60% of the votes despite record turn out on their side.

- There indeed is no hard and credible evidence that people are being deported out of HK into China. That's what I stated. I did not state that none have been assaulted by government forces.

" personal attacks are being aimed at witnesses of events that contradict this story"

umm...what personal attacks? Do you even know that the evidence of an emergency doctor saying the rapes occurred is by a "Dr. Ray" on Facebook? He also wrote in Chinese that his evidence is that "if he is lying, may the people and heavens judge him". Unfortunately most people buying into the claim don't read Chinese.

Now that I've pointed out your completely unbased claims and obvious disingenuity and lack of integrity, perhaps you want to provide evidence of claims to the contrary rather than your illogical rabble.

*yes I'm a brand new account. I usually only read posts here, but I'm from HK and it's an issue close to heart. I'm sick of the misrepresentation of what's actually happening being reinforced by people who have very little knowledge of Hong Kong if they have even ever visited or lived there at all.

"There have been extensive reports of victims like British consulate worker Simon Cheng being abducted to the mainland and being tortured."

Did you even see his interview with the BBC? Legally would not say anything about his hiring of prostitutes. No medical evience of the torture he claimed. The only hard evidence that was provided were CCTV tapes of him going into local massage joint. You would think that if he didn't obtain the services of sex workers he would come out and say it. Interesting that the British also let him go.

I've seen those videos. You have to be kidding if that's sufficient evidence to say they are being shipped off to Chinese black camps. As for the alleged rapes - the evidence is even more lacking. The primary source used is a facebook account using a pseudonym who claims he's an emergency doctor who then says he "swears" that he's telling the truth.

Everyone needs to be held to a basic standard of logic and scrutiny, not a double standard simply because one might agree with the ideals of a group. There are numerous ludicrous claims on the government and police side. But the same stands for protesters as well.

"people being shipped off in train cars reminiscent of pre-WWII photos that I have only learned about in school."

There is absolutely no corroborated evidence whatsoever that this happened. Just like the alleged rapes. I'm not saying that these things did not happen, but absolutely no credible evidence on these claims up until now.

Yeah it's hard to believe, but that's part of the issue. She's never been a politician, and was a second rate administrator / civil servant at best before she was chosen for the position. I think that we often overestimate the abilities of leaders everywhere in the world...

In addition, China is happy to let Carrie and HK stumble...to a certain extent of course. But they truly have been very hands off on the HK protests. I think it's worth noting that China is perfectly fine with HK getting burned by itself just as long certain lines aren't crossed (independence, violence against PLA, etc.). They weren't worried about losing HK when it was under British colonial rule, they certainly aren't worried now.

Furthermore, things really aren't that bad considering how the media has been reporting HK. It's still an extremely well-to-do city and life goes on in most parts.

The Hong Kong situation is much more complicated than mainstream media outside Hong Kong would like the world to believe, but that goes without saying.

The issue with the current HK government at the end of the day is that Carrie Lam is a second rate administrator and is wildly unqualified for handling the current situation in HK. Worse yet, she has one of the worst cabinets / teams ever assembled (you would need to be familiar with local HK politics to know this). In other words, HK couldn't have had a worse group to lead the city at this point in time.

Having said that, Carrie is completely reliant on the police force at this stage. There is no way she agrees to an independent inquiry or any major moves against the police. At least not right now.

I'd say that the independent inquriy may be something that can be compromised on at some point. But universal suffrage is out of the question, and demands 3 and 4 would never be accepted by the rest of Hong Kong nor would any reasonable person accept it given what has taken place since the original protests. In fact one of the key issues is that "the protest" isn't just one unified movement that has been moving forward since its inception.