azinman2

The reasoning blocks are not stolen/mined from the internet at large directly. They’re the result of a lot of research, time, money, and expertise into creating a reasoning model. To me the answer is quite clearly no, especially when the encrypted blocks demonstrate they want to protect it.

I don’t understand what Apple 1-9 are. At first I thought it was M series chips but there is no M9 (yet)

Being a world class talent is independent of financial situation.

What about Inkling? It's a quite large model that for some reason isn't discussed much.

Didn’t deepseek recently announce prices will go up significantly?

Right now the US dominates everyone else in actual chips in data centers. So even if deepseek etc tries to undercut, they’re very capacity limited.

I also don’t understand why UBI is desirable. Putting everyone on welfare means everyone is poor. This won’t end well, and it’s certainly not the case that 99% of the population will let a tiny number of people remove their income in favor of pennies for all. Political violence will come first, easily.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean you understand the details of implementation.

First, it’s more than breaking a terms of service. That language sounds very minimizing, as if the scale and effect is tiny. It’s basically espionage out in the open that bootstraps other models years into the competition, which is effectively stealing billions worth of development, compute, and leadership status.

Next, just look at the lawsuit against anthropic by the book authors. What’s the recourse for those same authors in China?

Last, one continues a leadership position for your own country vs handing over leadership to a major competitor who is not allied. This has ripple effects on the economy and ability to recruit/keep talent, which then affects social fabric and political ramifications.

Answered in a sister thread.

Are you from Europe or South America? Or just asking on their behalf?

They are allies of the US, which includes economic spheres of influence. The premise of the petrodollar is that allies do better by being a part of it than not, which has been true for many, many decades now. China’s rise is providing an alternative for the first time in 70+ years, but so far it’s very unclear if these benefits will truly extend to allies of China or not. For example, China sends their own laborers when building infrastructure in Africa. Sure there’s new infrastructure but also debt to CCP without any benefits of knowledge transfer or local employment.

For a number of reasons.

First, whether we like it or not (generally not), a fuck ton of money has been invested in US AI companies, data centers, RLHF datasets amongst other datasets, etc. If that were to go to 0 that’d be quite disastrous. Alternatively, if it goes well, it’s great for the US (and to a lesser extent allies) economy and global standing.

Relatedly, tech has been a huge power house for the US economy for decades now. If the main driver of growth goes to China, what replaces it? Along with all the potential tax money, foreign investment, etc?

Next, patriotism / nationalism. This is very much a zero-sum game that defines who owns the future. Would you rather your country win or lose this? Lose this and you start losing talent, money, global standing, etc. That furthers a cascading effect that’s very negative. It also will likely create social strife with the knock on effects leading to even more bad populist ideas that just further diminish the country and tear society’s fabric apart.

None of this is hilarious.

But when you lead there’s a level of trust in the people who are going to implement. You may still have a high level view of what’s going on, but that’s different from sweating the details. It also is different from bottoms up building those details where consequences become clear in thought.

I’ve noticed the pressure to keep velocity and move forward means I’m less sure of those details compared to before. LLMs are also inconsistent in the work they do - some of it is brilliant, other parts are idiotic. It’s totally different than what you’d get when leading humans.

Such as?

Except it’s not just a dump of the internet, which Moonshot also did themselves (and probably used even more pirated content as laws in China are different without any recourse for the entire world). I don’t know why this is so unclear to folks.

Unless you’re from mainland China, you should.

I assume you don’t use any LLMs then

The Chinese models poked and prodded better models for training data and to avoid having to pay humans to RLHF themselves. You can call it infringement, theft, whatever, but it’s quite obviously “not ethical” to me.

The Chinese models are the result of just as many papers, GitHub repos, etc… AND the synthesized results of those.

Don’t forget that the Chinese models are also built on top of huge amounts of “stolen data” as well, beyond the distilled. So it’s basically all of the above. However, there’s no mechanism for the NYT or an author or anyone in the US to sue the Chinese companies that took their work.

Don’t forget it took that huge spend to publish the papers and get to the models we have. It’s not obvious that without them we’d have LLMs springing up out of China or anywhere else.

It’s in the same neighborhood but isn’t really apples to apples. Distilling LLMs is to take a synthesized result that comes from huge amounts of innovation and computation, while the other is scraping what already exists as is. It is fair to say you stole our multi-billion dollar intellectual output in that scenario.

He didn’t start Tesla, he bought it. To his credit he probably saved it. But we also don’t have the counter factual.

“Because of his political views” This is a beyond charitable take. He brought in a chainsaw to the US gov (literally and figuratively), after buying his way in with trump with his 250M donation to create a new part of gov that was not democratically assembled. This isn’t just him tweeting a perspective.

I totally get the speculative aspect. However, the entire premise of them making money off software engineering is predicated on a truthfulness of whether they use that data or not. Otherwise the Chinese models (which make no promises and do log) become more viable…

Not if it ends up deskilling society and taking away what brings us meaning in life.

It’s really not. Vim isn’t instrumental to Azure usage.

If I were anthropic I’d force that too. They offer the harness and if they control the entire pipeline then they can optimize the entire experience. It doesn’t have to be nefarious.

It’s hilarious to me that there are people that think just a few people will control everything and the rest of the population will just accept whatever handouts they get. It’s like they’ve ignored all of human history.

Just to be clear, you’re speculating, right? They could also not be doing this.

Based on what?

> Anthropic trains on your data regardless of you opting out, I know that one for certain.

How do you know that?

Unless you have a family, want to travel, want an ample retirement fund, have complex health issues, etc etc.