cake = map (cool . bake 30 175) . splitIntoPans $ mix [ butter, sugar, walnuts ]
297 karma · joined May 31, 2019
cake = map (cool . bake 30 175) . splitIntoPans $ mix [ butter, sugar, walnuts ]
Hmm yeah, I agree that including that information (but more precisely than "you always") is useful here.
>I am curious that the social trend comes to you as a priority in "it's disgusting", that's not a perspective I would see.
Okay, disgusting socks may not be the best example, because it's pretty clear cut that leaving them in the open is not an acceptable roommate behavior. Can't think of something better right now. Maybe something like stereotypical "leaving the toilet seat up" or "hanging the toilet paper towards the wall or not"? thing is, that framing the discussion in terms of what is acceptable or not is a roundabout and, frankly, manipulative, by elevating personal view to an objective fact.
>You are burying the point by saying observations about feelings are facts.
At the end of the day, feelings are physiological reactions that have already happened. One can discuss whether one side should change, or the other should suck it up next time.
>It could very well be true from the first speaker's observations Felix always does leave his socks out.
That's not a feeling, that's an extrapolation from a mental model, that can't possibly hold in the real world. This leaves Felix no real recourse outside of some pointless back-and-forth.
>I mean that's all well in good in a normal social atmosphere
I think it's the entire point of NVC. No one in their sane mind suggests talking like that to a mugger or thief (though any other kind of talking would be equally ineffective).
>For better or worse one could draw the parallel between that political idea and this book.
Well I didn't notice that parallel before. I don't think the whole idea should be thrown under the bus because of it in any case.
No. The first speaker exaggerates the issue to make a point ("you always"), makes a roundabout reference to societal norms ("it's disgusting") instead of describing what actually annoys them (socks lying on the floor right now) and why (I don't want to see them because I personally find them disgusting, not because Felix failed to meet some outside standard).
>A competent person must be able to deal with both speakers.
Sure, but you can't change how others deal with your words. You can only choose how you yourself communicate.
>Describing words as violence fundamentally undermines the "old" (aka what I grew up with) liberal western order that was do whatever you want as long as it brings no harm.
I think you describe two problems here:
* The name is indeed unfortunate. * It is percieved as an objective standard against which to judge all communication, rather than a guide for one's own actions.
As I see it, it's generally pointless to expect others to behave in a certain "right" way that you can reasonably suspect they might not, and then get annoyed when they indeed don't. Speaking in a pointlessly confrontational manner (such as making arguments from omniscience, like "you always", or "you are a ___ person" etc) is more likely to provoke an aggressive reaction than sticking to the facts (observations about your own feelings are also facts). Why not choose the latter?
If I were to compile a list of workspace annoyances, even the most pointless standup would be way after serious business like "people standing behind my back while talking to someone".
I don't like the "simple language means understandable code" argument being thrown around like it was some obvious fact. I'm currently working on a project whose major component is a byzantine home-grown message passing framework written in pretty much Java-in-C++ (old school OO with liberal use of shared pointers. Not that I would call C++ in any form "simple", but I do think that C++ without template magic is simpler than Haskell with GHC magic, or, say, any Lisp with a lot of macros). Maybe it's a case of grass being greener on the other side, but I'd gladly take a monad transformer stack or a DSL written in Lisp macros over doing the same song and a dance over and over again just to implent a tiny new functionality, or trying to deduce the logic from someone else's sea of boilerplate.
I mean, taking this logic to extreme, one could say that code written in assembly is easy to understand: it's adding a value to EAX now, then it jumps over there...
This being said, Haskell does have something in it that encourages one to design a ballistic algebra that runs in the type system before even pointing a gun at one's foot.
You left out from your list the stance that while Stallman did in fact, repeatedly, do wrong, he still didn't deserve to get his words mangled by the press (which undoubtedly contributed to the public outrage).
Even worse with `data Bar a = Bar (a -> a)`.