RickWolter

without a doubt

I misunderstood you. I thought the "But there seem to be too many notes here to not call it a symphony" was referring to me. I thought you were insinuating I was a psychopath.

I apologize. I clearly didnt understand what you were saying.

your reason for the burner makes sense. Im just so used to people using burners to troll that I assumed that was the reason. We have had more than a few people harass us by trolling our zoom talks and our posts.

> I have worked with charming psychopaths in the past as has anyone who has been in this business for some time, and you do get better at spotting certain things.

how many charming psychopaths have you worked with ? And what have you spotted? I seriously laughed out loud when I read that.

what is the point in your comment? To try and discredit me? what for? to harm underdog devs?

you cant expect me to take that analogy serious...you compare someone who actively seeks to cause harm with someone who made a terrible choice as a teenager, hasn't been in trouble in over 20 years, and spends his free time helping people for free?

Theres no way you can be serious. you know what I think....I think youre full of shit. I think you made that story up and I think you have some personal issue with me or underdog devs. Probably why youre using a burner.

at least you think im charming so theres that

I agree with everything you say here. I was unaware that people have taken it so seriously as to feel compelled to learn to code. I agree with you, its being marketed everywhere.

And you are spot on about the other options (for employment) not being discussed. I think plumbing and HVAC (here in Florida HVAC techs are in constant demand) are reasonable options to pursue for many folks getting out but you dont see it discussed as much.

Obviously the allure of a high salary is one of the reasons people talk about coding more but the consistent demand for the less discussed skills should be factored in. Its damn near a sure bet you can find work if you learn HVAC or plumbing. In all transparency I only have seen and heard of the demand second hand, I dont know for certain. Ive never done either of those trades.

and no offense taken. Nonetheless thank you for explaining further.

thanks. I try.

my 2 cents .... its unnecessary. It often then just leads to me having to explain what that term means. I would much rather use formerly incarcerated. Its a fairly neutral term, imo. Its not loaded with negative connotations like terms such as convict.

Also the term "justice impacted" seems to strip us of all agency. I would like to retain at least a smidgen of autonomy in my decision making.

just want to add that you are correct imo. confinement was overall the very worst experience of my 18 years in prison.

thank you for the kind words. I was really lucky to get another chance considering the severity of my mistakes. Helping others get their life on track seems the least I could do.

Hey everyone. My names Rick. Im the person Adam is interviewing. If any of you are interested in learning more about Underdog Devs, please reach out to us on Twitter @RwoltX and @UnderdogDevs or directly to underdogdevs.org

We are always looking for people who would like to get involved

the most common involvement is mentoring and pair programming

we also could use help in other areas...someone to help develop partnerships, admin, and general marketing.

as for donations ... Everything we receive goes directly to the mission. We do not take a dime to pay for any salaries. None of us do. We work as volunteers. Every penny we receive goes to learning resources and to the stipend program to pay the bills of our most gritty who are held back due to their financial situation.

coincidentally at Underdog Devs we took in some of the students from that failed project. It was called Mined Mines. A few still made it later and became software devs, but the majority didnt work out.

Obviously not everyone wants to learn to code. I dont think anyone mistakenly believes that.The (possibly overused) advice to learn to code is prevalent because software is prevalent

Ill repeat what ive said elsewhere...It is a legit path to a rewarding job which is open to those without degrees and who might have felonies on record.

Since starting Underdog Devs Ive seen it over and over. With real commitment its very attainable. We have many success stories which seem like outliers, however they consistently happen.

This isn't something Ive read, its something we've done over and over with mentees. I get that youre tired of that trite bit of advice, but its happening for a lot of people. There are a lot of people who have had their entires life changed through that skill. Definitely not the solution for everyone, but it is the solution for some.

I agree with much of what you said. You've also missed the point if you are referring to the non-profit Underdog Devs, which helps the formerly incarcerated become developers, with your bootstraps comment.

If we could become software devs "by our own bootstraps" there would be no need for an Underdog Devs. Thats the point, support is needed.

Overall I agree with you though, learning to code is not some panacea to cure recidivism. It is however a legit path to a rewarding job which is open to those without degrees and who might have felonies on record.

Since starting Underdog Devs Ive seen it over and over. With real commitment its very attainable. We have many success stories which seem like outliers, however they consistently happen.

well said

if you had some free time to volunteer and wanted a mission reach out here....

https://www.underdogdevs.org

and on Twitter @UnderdogDevs

we are always looking for folks such as yourself to help with underdog devs.

https://www.underdogdevs.org

and on Twitter @UnderdogDevs

For anyone in the thread wondering how a felon might get ahead...

Im a formerly incarcerated software engineer. I now run a non-profit org called Underdog Devs dedicated to getting formerly incarcerated people into software engineering jobs.

We have over 450 members. We experienced engineers from all over the industry that will guide you. We also have a program called Project Underdog where we offer a stipend to pay their bills and have them pair program all week long with various mentors. Its led by the brilliant Jessica McKellar and has proven to be better than any bootcamp or CS program ive experienced.

Reach out if you would like some support.

https://www.underdogdevs.org

and on Twitter @UnderdogDevs

You're right I havent made an effort to hide my past. Hard thing to hide, spending nearly half my life behind bars. I also highlight it. I use it as a tool. Its a point of reference for people wondering if they can do it. And we have also used it to garner support for Underdog Devs.

Thats not me being combative. Thats just me answering what felt like accusatory insinuations. I was defensive and direct but I wasn't trying to provoke you.

Appreciate you apologizing and I understand your cynicism. Im a bit cynical with this space as well.

I assure you UD is a different thing than what you're used to. We havent even used any money for operating costs. We could but we've instead focused on getting mentees bills paid so that those who would be most impacted by the economic mobility that programming affords can focus on learning. We all have spent countless hours, all as volunteers, trying to create opportunities for folks who might not otherwise have them.

Appreciate your support and the apology.

I agree they were defensive responses. I was responding to accusations. The defensiveness was intentional.

The first comment felt like he was insinuating we are sketchy and the second that I was attempting to involve him in a "pissing contest". Neither are true and so I was defensive. I wasn't being an asshole. I was speaking plainly to those insinuations. I simply addressed where he might be wrong.

Why insinuate I was instigating a pissing match?

I answered sincerely and in some areas corrected you. Thats it. I didnt attempt to "out credential" you. Your post felt like it was insinuating we are shady and so I answered. Correcting you isn't a pissing match.

Had I wanted to engage in a pissing match I would have let you know that I did 18 years in prison and became a software engineer afterwards. I intimately know what it takes for our mentees to do what we are trying to help them do. I did it. I grew up in prison and then later became a developer. All that is true but I was just answering your questions and felt no need to tell you why I think I have the perspective and knowledge to do what we are doing.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/offenderSearch/detail.aspx?Page=De...

Underdog Devs founder here...

We are a scrappy group of software engineers working to create opportunities for people who might not otherwise have them. Mainly the formerly incarcerated.

We are a very unique org in that we have no operating costs. No operating costs and yet we do the following....

We provide pair programming sessions all week for mentees with professional software engineers, they meet every other week with another mentor for career guidance, we have interview prep, our bootcamp partnerships provide free seats at various bootcamps, they get code assessments to determine progress by a CTO of a successful fintech company in San Fran, and a group of them have their bills paid so that they can focus on developing their skills unimpeded. Again, costs nothing, so all our money goes to the mentees bills.

We have had 16 people hired in under a year and without a website. We plan to have 6 more hired within the next couple months. Although these aren't huge numbers remember that these are folks who have done prison time, who usually dont have degrees, who come from low income, and who many times felt like giving up on their software dev aspirations. This isn't the architect turned coder...this is major economic mobility that will change entire their family's trajectory. That 16 is a very meaningful 16.

If anyone is interested in more info reach out.

on Twitter Im @RwoltX and you'll find UD at @UnderdogDevs

Or email us: questions@underdogdevs.org

I reached out and asked him for his support. He thinks its an interesting problem to solve and has decided to help.

By disadvantaged we mean people from a lower socio-economic background.

In referring to "disadvantaged" we meant having a lower socio-economic background. Mainly those who are economically disadvantaged.

We started by trying to help only the formerly incarcerated but enough people reached out that we decided to try and expand to help more people.

He is helping us solve some things.

Mainly how to get companies to give our mentees a chance.

reach out. We are always looking for more support.

We have had 16 people hired in under a year and without a website at that time.

Companies will hire if you use your network to make it happen.

Hi founder of Underdog Devs here....

1. The website is sparse because we spend our money on the mentees bills and so relied on those learning to build it.

2. As for orgs having a "fairly significant level of sketchy behavior" and falling victim to corruption, as you put it...sounds like a lot of speculation. I cant know either of those assertions as I dont have any data on it. I only know what we are doing.

3. I disagree that it's difficult to work with folks who have criminal backgrounds. I do agree that there are some who have no interest in changing.

4. The site doesnt conflate “disadvantaged” folks with ex-cons. Read it again. It says OR. Meaning you can come from either.

5. You say ex-cons are a subset of disadvantaged people and then you mention they face "radically" different challenges than folks who suffer from things like poverty, prejudice, and lack of opportunity. They face legal discrimination but thats the only difference. The vast majority of inmates come from lower socio-economic backgrounds so they face very similar obstacles.

If you have any more questions reach out rick@underdogdevs.org or join an info session some time.