LudvigVanHassen

This is true too. And the majority of Facebook users I know unfollow people who post political topics.

It is about the circles.

I think this is an important point indeed. A piece of this puzzle, in my opinion, is that people are not taught this at home anymore. Most familes have both parents working full time and they're exhausted after work. Their kids are raised in daycare and neglected. And so many are raised in divorced/broken/separated/single parent households that compound the problem much more.

Furthermore, most of the US isn't religious anymore. These values and maxims mentioned above are not taught to people anymore, at least not to the degree that they were in the past.

A piece of this should be better training in the home for kids on how to understand the internet. To avoid being hateful and to question things. But so many kids are left to their own devices without parental oversight on this subject. I've even heard the call recently that parents want high schools and colleges to start teaching courses on how to avoid harmful content and misinformation online.

In what feels like ancient history, this used to be the parent's job, before both spouses were working full time.

Our kids and the younger generation suffer from lacking parental instruction on this.

The hypothetical "most people" in this statement would be dreadfully, dreadfully wrong if they think it would all turn out fine. They are vastly under estimating how much the modern world, in literally almost any aspect you can imagine, is reliant on fossil fuels.

No idea. This sholdn't be downvoted.

Welcome to the modern world...

There is quite a lot of humor in this statement. ;)

This post should not be downvoted. These are legitimate concerns for half the US population. Whoever is poo-pooing this may disagree with these lies presented above. But again, you have half the US population who really DOES have a problem with these lies. And your solution is to just downvote the post and offer no response?

The 3-5 year clinical trial like all of the previous vaccines.

Agreed. NPR it VERY left biased and it's damn evident.

And it's a damning realization at that. Nevertheless, it seems to be true.

How do we maintain the emphasis on free speech with our higher fragmented population who have WIDELY varying beliefs and little shared culture?

Or they were kids and too young to comment or understand the situation. I would have protested then if I were an adult with my life understanding now.

And this is a dogshit simplistic way to view the world that leads to our. Social media and all of this tribalism makes all American dumber. It's removing our ability to understand and appreciate nuance and learning how to get along with those who think differently.

Frogpelt has an understanding that so many lack. I wish there was some way for this middle ground to speak and make itself now.

This "tribal" devolution of everything to two sides on an issue with interlocking viewpoints on all subjects is a major problem in our current climate.

I agree the nuance of this situation is lost when there are so many people who do not see the nuance to begin with.

A culture that cannot understand nuance is a culture more likely to go to war. To see others as "other", not seeking common ground, but seeing things that differ as reasons to hate

This last point and the new york times article are a great example of this corruption and corporate interests.

The bastards at the helm CANNOT be trusted.

Also, all of these vaccines that ARE mandated for children against said horrible and deadly diseases were tested for YEARS prior to becoming mandatory to ensure that they are safe for children.

It is impossible to have that dataset for the COVID vaccines. The time has not elapsed yet. The trials have not been done. They are rushing to approve them in a sense of emergency, which I do understand. I do also acknowledge that the data so far is promising! I certainly hope that the vaccines are safe for children and that we can use these going forward in the future.

But I want the process followed; the full 3-5 year trial test before these are mandated. The emergency push for this towards children would be different if COVID was killing the same % of children that it kills the very old. But the data is overwhelming clear the world over: children do not die from COVID; well over 99% have no deaths or long term issues.

>Right now, vaccine holdouts are really screwing things up for us who want to return to some form of normality.

I think the challenge here is the media and the government are heavily promoting the MESSAGE that vaccine holdouts are screwing things up for everyone.

But the truth is that they are not. The unvaccinated are unvaccinated at their own choice. If they die from not being vaccinated, that's their problem.

I'm open to having triage laws at a hospital where, if they are overwhelmed with the unvaccinated, they can be sidelined for others coming in with other needs. The unvaccinated do have this strain on the medical system and it cannot be ignored. As many have said, the DEATHS from Delta and most of the hospitalized CASES from Delta are indeed among the unvaccinated.

But I think the right to chose is worth the cost.

Delta is also spreading around among the vaccinated. It is indeed true that Delta cases for the vaccinated are far more mild. Almost none result in hospitalization, never mind in death.

But Delta is endemic, vaccinated or not. For the first year of this virus, there NEVER was the assumption we could eradicate it entirely. It's a Coronavirus like the common cold; it WILL be endemic. There never was any other outcome once it passed into the millions of cases world wide.

The left's fantasy of authoritarian control and creating a perfect world from harm is simply unobtainable.

The common good is to learn to deal with this, as we do the flu. Reopen, learn, make the choices you think are best and deal with the consequences. This nanny state of lockdown to try to achieve the impossible is stupid, and turning tyrannical in it's pursuit of a utopia that cannot be had.

Emphasizing this quote:

However, cloth masks did reduce the overall likelihood of experiencing symptoms of respiratory illness during the study period.

All of this is correct. Many on the left seem forcibly unable to view the nuance described here.

Freedom of choice is an American value that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world to the degree that it does here. Freedom to decide what you do with your body trumps public health. Half of Americans believe this, and the other half doesn't.

Finding the compromise between those two viewpoints is exceptionally challenging. Each group has the temptation to view the other as being "willfully evil," whether for being selfish or for imposing tyranny.

I hope the solution is that our high vaccination rate of 70+% of adults and the prevalence of the spread of Delta (which creates natural immunity) will combine to reach herd immunity and we can get out of this craven, horrible timeline we find ourselves in.

This is precisely correct. As someone who was vaccine hesitant, I ended up getting the J&J but felt like a full 20 hours a week part time job to try to parse what was actually true.

Fauci, the CDC, the WHO; all of the communications from these institutions used the noble lie constantly, fudging numbers, re-casting things to fit their narrative. I already deeply mistrust the media apparatus, who also parrot this narrative.

Realizing that the vaccines are safe took a LONG time for me to come to. I do think I am very much in the minority of the vaccine hesitant category. Many of them dig not dig through all news sources from both sides like I have the perception I did (in truth, I looked at more on the right than the left).

But you have to understand that a huge swarth of the country do not trust ANY of the institutions. All of the officials are viewed as corrupt, manipulating liars.

Did the US really force it to pick up a shitty monetary policy?

I love this phrase you've crafted. If only we could force China into picking up, like... no less than 14 shitty monetary policies.....

The edit is the correct response.

Technology is awesome, but it's fallen into the hands of a bunch of god damn authoritarians. Trust absolutely no one. Paranoid should be your default behavior towards any files you have a device that accesses the Internet. There's 10,000 tentacles seeking that data.

I agree with this.

This is an important point. While the media love to paint all "anti-vaxxers" are rural republicans or Trump supports, this simply isn't true. There are many racial minority groups (African Americans in particular) who are vaccine hesitant. There are healthcare workers in both rural and big cities of both political parties who are hesitant on the vaccines.

Also the phrase "anti-vaxxers" is an intentional conflagration of two separate groups: the original pre-covid19 anti-vaxxers and anti-COVID19-vaxxers.

The probability being very different argument above is based in massaged data; data fit to a narrative.

The narrative wants you to trust it and set aside such petty questioning! "The science" will prevail! The elites no better! How dare you ask for specifics, a practical dataset and explanations. You might be labeled a anti-vaxxer over such things! /sarcasm

In this hypothetical scenario, the assumption is being made that the collection good is more important than individual liberty.

Another issue at play here in the US is that Americans are divided on where the line should be drawn between what can be allowed in the name of the collective good. I think it's quite obviously that the nation is very split on this. There isn't a constructive debate going on about the interplay between these two positions or a compromise.

One side (people mandating restrictions) are trying to brute force mandates without interacting, constructively discussing and persuading the other side.

All of these are reasonable arguments. I personally agree with them. I am vaccinated (J&J), and was vaccine hesitant for 6 months prior to making my decision. I still stand far more in unity with the anti-vaccination camp than those asking for restrictions.

Many in the "people asking for restrictions" camp will not see these arguments as reasonable because they don't comply with "the science" (which is actually a crafted narrative).

Part of the problem is that we aren't just dealing just with a morphing dataset being communicated very imperfectly across digital mediums to the entire globe. We have all of that, and then that already fantastically complicated scenario is being ham-fisted into a narrative, and the narrative trumps all the data.

This is the correct response.

I believe this sarcasm is truly important in understanding this. There is very much an "appeal to authority" conundrum going on. Solid studies that deviate at all from what the US media and the Biden Administration are discredited.

This extends to policies and prescriptions that have been in place for months or a year in other countries and working to positive effect, i.e. Ivermectin use in numerous countries to assist in fighting COVID (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/) or for instance most of Europe not locking down schools and requiring masks.

This information leads some to believe that a bias or, at worst, an agenda is applied to the science, discarding studies that don't fit the narrative of "the science."

Your first paragraph is correct, but you seem to think it's a problem that people might choose to be naturally infected. That's a valid choice people can make. I believe most people who aren't vaccinated are doing so on purpose. Delta has actually been helpful towards getting herd immunity because is it so contagious but far less lethal than the earlier strains.

We can reach herd immunity with a combination of vaccines and natural immunity. You will not be able to vaccinate everyone.