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CipherThrowaway

1,128 karma · joined May 2, 2021

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CipherThrowaway··on How to be a good listener
> and tips on how to communicate with them was the best thing i could ever do

I'm interested in how you concluded the advice was so beneficial. Was it a reduction in conflict and fewer emotional outbursts from your BPD partner? A feeling that you're better able to soothe them and manage their feelings?

CipherThrowaway··on How to be a good listener
I went by the reviews - I don't intend to read the book. Her husband believes she suffered from borderline personality disorder. Have you had a friend or family member with BPD, or another cluster-B PD?

These are clinical standards for self-absorption and toxic personality traits. In their relationships, cluster-Bs select for supplicants who will love them despite their toxicity. What you're saying about the memoir is consistent with this.

Her mental health conditions aren't a reason to disregard everything she says, but she is providing social and interpersonal advice here, in a way that is likely to encode the dysfunctional schema and disordered thinking she suffered from in life.

For an opinion piece that is about how to empathize with other people, I think it is relevant information that the author probably had a clinical impairment in their own ability to empathize with and understand others.

CipherThrowaway··on How to be a good listener
The two things we said aren't conflicting.
CipherThrowaway··on How to be a good listener
Personally, I find 2 and 3 to be creepy and robotic. 3 also feels intrusive.

The conscious analysis of tone and body language is obviously important for many people to get by socially, especially for neurodiverse people or people outside the norm of the situation. However, I think it is important to avoid remarking directly on body language.

You can still let these non-verbal observations guide a conversation, of course. Rather than remarking on someone's smile when they mention a subject, you might ask them to elaborate on the subject.

Unless they've asked to be psychoanalyzed, most people do not like the feeling of being analyzed.

CipherThrowaway··on How to be a good listener
Yeah, it's her. This piece is linked from her blog at: https://sibilantfricative.wordpress.com/

First paragraph of the OP and I knew in my bones it was written by someone with a personality disorder. Since her death, her husband published his memoir in 2023. The serial cheating, open suicide ideation, unresolved childhood trauma and general toxicity to herself and others is completely consistent with the tone of the article.

CipherThrowaway··on How to be a good listener
>Does anyone else question this common piece of advice?

Absolutely. One thing I notice is that the people sharing this "advice" - while positioning themselves as amazing listeners - seem to have a disgust reaction to people sharing details about their own lives in a conversation.

Personally, if I have something I would like to speak about and feel heard about, I feel most heard when the other person is able to share some of their own thoughts and experiences. I absolutely do not feel heard when they completely remove themselves and their life from the conversation, and hit me with lifeless "open-ended questions" and "that sounds tough" platitudes that could have come from a blog post.

CipherThrowaway··on How to be a good listener
I'm no expert on listening, but I think do have a sense of when I personally feel heard.

I don't agree with this piece at all, and I don't like the vibe of the author. The very first paragraph has a narcissism in it that rubs me the wrong way. Like the whole world let her down for not centering her in conversations the way her therapist caretaker did.

> Some simple and powerful phrases to use when someone is feeling feels: “I hear you.” “I bet it is hard.” “That makes sense.”

All three of these seriously suck to hear. IMO these are actually worse than the phrases the author says to never say. Someone telling you "You have no reason to feel that way" can easily be challenged. Someone disingenuously saying "I hear you" like a robot can't be.

The entire idea that there are boilerplate "powerful phrases" you can drop to make someone feel heard is nonsense. These generic phrases are determined ahead of hearing someone speak, so they can not reflect the act of hearing.

There's a reason why this brand of non-communication is so popular in HR circles. What this author is advocating is that we import patronizing HR speak into every day conversation. No thanks.

>Replace all of the shocking, mean, hateful, incorrect, ignorant, offensive, cruel things coming out of this person’s mouth with “I’m hurt! I’m hurt! I’m hurt! I’m hurt. I’m hurrrrt.”

This is narcissistic logic. When people are angry at you, and attacking you - and they do not have a clinical mood or personality disorder - you must accept that there may be a reason behind it. Things said in the heat of the moment are not always fair or measured, but they are rarely meaningless. When you decide that nothing someone is saying is valid because they are hurt, you will probably just invalidate and hurt them further.

The idea that the most important thing in a situation like this is to not be upset yourself is also narcissistic logic. Although presented as practical advice to not escalate, it's really just the authors need to "win" the interaction. It says "I'm the level-headed and rational one, while the other person is crazy and flying off the handle." Acting this way can escalate the situation even more than becoming angry yourself, but it will do so in a way that allows you to avoid taking any personal responsibility for that escalation.

I have to wonder what situations and interpersonal relationships the author is in that she finds this to be such a relevant piece of advice. These experiences don't sound like a model for healthy communication.

>5. Don’t relate.

This entire section is deeply narcissistic. The one-upmanship thing does happen, for sure. But it's not the reason people share their own experiences in the course of you sharing yours. Her conception of why people share reflects a deeply disconnected view of other people. Reads as "sometimes I'm talking to someone who is so self-absorbed they don't understand the conversation is 100% about me!"

Of the whole article, this section was most reminiscent of the cognitive style of diagnosed NPDs I've known.

>6. Ask questions.

This is the only decent advice in here, and I can't really fault it. But there is still something off here. It's like the goal of asking these questions is to "make someone feel heard" rather than to actually hear them.

CipherThrowaway··on Montage fallacy
If you need discipline, then it's not microwaveable. That sounds like more of a slow cook.
CipherThrowaway··on React Is the New IBM (2023)
I still like React and unlike many others I even like the newer stuff like RSCs. At the same time, it is hard to shake the feeling that React's core team and associated personalities have lost sight of the changing frontend landscape, and have become disconnected from software design principles. Instead they seem to be chasing some totalizing purity where everything can be handled in the React "model."

IMO, React repeatedly nerfing external stores and encouraging users more and more to shove their application state into React components has exposed what a poor model of reactivity React actually offers.

CipherThrowaway··on Utility classes aren't the same as inline styles (2021)
I find this criticism interesting. Among the people actually doing it, it seems to be a near universal experience that Tailwind projects are easier to maintain than class based CSS.

What is it about Tailwind that is unmaintainable, in your view?

CipherThrowaway··on OOHtml – Object-Oriented HTML Implementation
>I might have done of lot of hating on DSL just like this.

And now you go down the same path.

If you are building real applications with this then you will find that OOHTML will need to be repeatedly extended in order to fit the more complex use cases that come with deeper usage. You will end up reinventing the wheel but worse. That's a great outcome if the project is a hobby or learning experience. But if you're trying to deliver real commercial outcomes with this tech I would start rethinking things now.

CipherThrowaway··on OOHtml – Object-Oriented HTML Implementation
Say what you want about JSX, but this is the opposite of the JSX approach. JSX embeds markup in your logic rather than logic in your markup.
CipherThrowaway··on OOHtml – Object-Oriented HTML Implementation
It looks cursed because it is cursed. It's the classic "back to the basics" web technology nonsense that is hello world optimized and completely unsuited to any real world business purpose.

These seemingly simple template languages that promise an escape from the "unnecessary" bloat and complexity of the modern web are doomed to fail. Any level of adoption will drive deeper usage, which will drive more complex use cases, which will force more bolted-on general programming language features. Eventually your users discover (the hard way) why all the complexity in modern web frameworks exists, but now they're stuck programming in a shitty template language that is underbaked, awkward to use, has no ecosystem, shitty tooling and some rancid expression DSL you have to memorize. Cursed indeed.

CipherThrowaway··on What it was like working for Gitlab
This is what burnout is. Burnout is not caused by working, but by stress. The root cause of this stress is personal and interpersonal factors. People can burn out on very small workloads if the ratio of interpersonal toxicity to hours of work is high enough.

Sometimes it looks like people are burning out because of extreme workloads. In these situations, I've always asked "why is the workload so extreme to begin with?" This gets you to the real source of stress.

CipherThrowaway··on Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time
> While I have no reason to doubt Daniel's good faith, it's hard to believe that HN users would be tired of LLM-related news.

I am. Completely sick of it! Thanks dang for your diligent moderation.

CipherThrowaway··on Asking your customers what they want doesn't work
> I've had sales people go "unless you build X, I can't close the deal"

For the benefit of younger devs, I'd like to add that this is a rookie sales mistake that indicates lack of software sales experience.

CipherThrowaway··on The worst kind of programmer
I'm yet to see evidence that the types of people who whinge about these types of "brilliant programmers" are themselves much better at documentation, training and onboarding a team. The fact that devs like this are even in a position to whine and complain about their projects becoming unmaintainable after the star team mate leaves is a clear demonstration that they themselves have not made any substantial contribution to the maintainability or transferability of the codebase. Further, it shows they lacked the ability to professionally advocate for these things within the business.

I'm very skeptical about these situational anecdotes where someone with low impact complains about someone with high impact. "I was on a team where the guy who wrote everything left and then everything sucked" is not a compelling vantage point.

CipherThrowaway··on The worst kind of programmer
The author was on a mismanaged project and his takeaway is to blame his fellow devs rather than hold management accountable. In fact, he does not even seem to recognize the existence of a managerial issue.

This whole article reeks of imposter syndrome. Of course, it must be the case that all the devs who are more productive and impactful than the author are actually secretly very bad, and that the author's inability to understand technologies like Rx, validation and testing frameworks is actually a hidden strength because it makes him some perfectly interchangeable lowest common denominator developer. I hate/hated working with Rx, but it is fundamentally not challenging or complex.

This story is common because the types of people who are capable of single-handedly building large parts of a software product in a short time are naturally the ones who are "hyper-productive" and leveraging a tonne of different technologies and paradigms. The unexceptional "slow and steady" devs are usually not capable of having that kind of impact. When devs like the author do manage to single-handedly deliver entire codebases (e.g. over long periods of time), they are typically just as bug-ridden and unmaintainable as what the "rock star" devs produce.

Ultimately, the onus is on businesses to avoid crutching themselves entirely on a single developer's output. But there are a heap of shitty businesses that have no method for delivering software other than to let singular, highly motivated and passionate developers "go HAM" on the codebase with no oversight. These businesses deserve to fail, and the unmaintainability of the code base after the departure of their key players represents the correction of a market anomaly.

>Then suddenly, the frontend lead quit for greener pastures

What does this even mean? Key personnel do not "suddenly" quit.

CipherThrowaway··on Software architecture pitfalls and how to avoid them
Is this an honest question or one of those HN social status signalling things where we all feign unfamiliarity with what software development looks like outside of the YC bubble? Not snark, seeking clarification.
CipherThrowaway··on Software architecture pitfalls and how to avoid them
I've heard that exact same adage used in reverse by those "6-7 years at the same company" engineers against engineers with careers of shorter stints. The logic being that if you never experience 5/6/7+ years of continuous ownership, you never get to see how your decisions pan out, and you miss out on other forms of longitudinal experience.

If one thing is a constant, it is that engineers will always come up with these silly little adages and cliches to discount the experience of their peers and continue telling themselves they are the smartest kid in the room.

CipherThrowaway··on The Apollo Syndrome
It's not clear to me that negative correlation was the finding. For example, the result does not show that teams of randomly selected high aptitude individuals perform worse than teams of randomly selected non-high aptitude individuals.

From what I can tell, the only finding here is that teams with individual aptitude as the sole selection criteria performed poorly in competition against teams that had more traditional selection process. This would be an expected result for me.

CipherThrowaway··on The Apollo Syndrome
>he reported some unexpectedly poor results

The results are only unexpectedly poor if you assume individual ability directly composes into team ability. I think this was a common assumption in the 1980s, but I believe that managers nowadays will not be surprised by these results.

CipherThrowaway··on Pitfalls of Helm – Insights from 3 years with the leading K8s package manager
I remember being blown away by this. Unhygienic templating and lack of template and serialization boundaries has been such a consistent disaster in our field for so many decades that it is hard to believe we are still dealing with this kind of design error in relatively new technology.

My feeling is we will probably all look back at the over-use of text based DSLs and configuration languages as a giant mistake. Not just with respect to K8s, but IaC, CI/CD config and the rest of the DevOps YAML/config language mess. In retrospect, it has been a case of simplistic instead of simple. "Declarative" config languages are hello world optimized, and what looked great at the beginning of the S-curve is starting to look pretty damn bad.

CipherThrowaway··on Vertical farming company raised $500M, and then it all but disappeared
>They all seem to be based on this assumption that traditional farming/food production is antiquated and inefficient, and that what the industry needs is clever outsiders to come in and re-invent it with the latest technologies. And they all just seem to go nowhere.

I think we can safely say this mentality goes well beyond ag-tech. There seems to be a founder/engineer specific flavor of "epistemic trespassing" - especially with respect to fields that tech types look down on as banal or unsophisticated.

Outsiders can make valuable contributions to fields beyond their own, but I'd imagine the chance of doing so steeply diminishes with arrogance. If you walk into a market thinking everyone is an idiot waiting to be disrupted, get ready to fail hard.

CipherThrowaway··on You are never taught how to build quality software
> The reason I find it easier to work with people who have a degree in Computer Science is that I don't have to convince them of the need for good algorithms and not to try to implement parsers or cryptography by hand.

Cryptography and parsers simply do not belong in the same sentence. There is never a time when it is a appropriate to write your own cryptography. OTOH, most large compiler and interpreter projects have handwritten parsers, and many of them have handwritten lexers too.

Writing a parser can be simple enough to fit into a take-home assignment, and hand-written parser code ends up looking pretty similar to an LL grammar anyway. Parsing is also the easiest part of writing compiler or language tooling, so if a hand-written parser is too high a bar for the team then the entire project might questionable.

I'm not saying never use a parser generator, but I would personally prefer to work on a project with a well tested hand-written parser than a project using a parser generator. Especially if it complicates the build process with extra tooling, or is something really dated like Bison or ANTLR.

CipherThrowaway··on The industries AI is disrupting are not lucrative
> it is that we don't need as many programmers.

This sounds a bit like a variant of the old "lump of labor" misconception.

There's no such thing as needing programmers. In the long run, economic decisions in markets are made at the margin, and increases in marginal productivity make labor more valuable rather than less. This induces rather than reduces consumption. There are caveats of course: the benefits of induced consumption may not be distributed to all devs evenly, or may not be distributed evenly between capital and labor. But the idea that making programmers more productive reduces the need for programmers - ceteris paribus - is mistaken.

The degree to which the development market will expand as a result of increases in developer productivity ultimately depends on the elasticity of demand for development. But it's hard to say the market is anywhere close to saturated. This might come as a surprise to some in the HN bubble, but programming is so inefficient and difficult to engage right now that the default way for businesses to build software and software systems is through untrained office workers and consultants hacking together Excel formulas, no-code builders and workflow configurations in giant ERPs and CRMs.

CipherThrowaway··on Covid's damage lingers in the heart
>One should pay attention to the following symptoms: tingling/burning sensations especially in limbs, complexities with swallowing (dysphagia), chronic fatigue, shortness of breath with >= 96% SpO2, uncontrolled muscle cramps, panic attacks, agoraphobia, persistent tinnitus, appearance of dark spots in the field of vision, problems with regulation of body temperature (persistent hypo- or hyperthermia), persistent distortion/loss of smell/taste.

With the exception of loss of smell and taste, these are all also associated with stress physiology. The exact mechanisms are unclear, but lifelong anxiety sufferers will be familiar with many of these. I've personally experienced all of these since I was a young teenager/child. Well before COVID was around.

I don't want to minimize long COVID, because it is very real. But we should be careful about encouraging people with generalized anxiety symptoms to over-identify as long COVID.

CipherThrowaway··on "No, it's less effort than that"
I'm not saying "don't try." And I'm also not disagreeing that people, on the whole, respond well to attempts to understand them and communicate with them.

My observation is that it is ultimately organizational culture that frames the way people communicate and how they understand each other. Individuals can move the needle a bit depending on the size of the company and their position in it. But largely they are powerless against the prevailing culture.

In a healthy organization, your efforts to understand the rest of the business and its needs will be accepted as you intend and will benefit yourself, your team and the business. In the average toxic organization, your good intentions won't matter and your questions won't be received the way you intend. Staying upbeat and helpful in these environments might even result in you being punished.

CipherThrowaway··on "No, it's less effort than that"
>Who says "business people" aren't capable of dealing with uncertainty?

Not defending the parent comment because it's way off base. But come on. You've never seen non-development stakeholders struggle to accept devs communicating uncertainty?

CipherThrowaway··on "No, it's less effort than that"
Honestly, asking these kinds of business level questions as a dev is a great way to be seen as stubborn and uncooperative in businesses where the mindset of the OP comment has taken root.

The managers who complain about their devs not thinking at the business level are usually the ones shooting them down when they do. Why are the coders questioning why we need the baby?

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