Comment by themeek | Hacker News Reader

Comment by themeek | Hacker News Reader

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Germany's Secret Service just charged their leading Civil Rights group on treason for publishing information about the German government's plans to further expand domestic mass surveillance.

This is not different than what has happened in the United States - though the US uses National Security Letters, gag orders, financial and criminal leverage and defamation - its only when these don't work that the US will reach toward the Espionage Act.

We look back in history and question why citizens in history asked their governments to send civil rights activists to prison and to silence certain stories in the press.

Today we get modern answers to these questions at least every few months.

I have polled friends, family and acquaintances: the overwhelming response is that we don't feel safe.

I have also sampled the official stance from press releases and speeches: the overwhelming justification is that we are not safe.

As all things are, the truth is much more complicated.

> This is not different than what has happened in the United States - though the US uses National Security Letters, gag orders, financial and criminal leverage and defamation - its only when these don't work that the US will reach toward the Espionage Act.

The hell it isn't. When did the U.S.G. hit the ACLU with treason charges?

Not the ACLU. James Risen. Journalist.

Ok, when was James Risen charged with treason by the US?

AFAICT, the most significant legal battle he's had with the US Justice Department was over the latter's attempt to force him to testify in the trial of Jeffery Sterling, a former CIA officer charged with leaking. Risen himself hasn't been charged with anything.

He was charged with the Espionage Act. Please refer to the original comment to see that I did not claim the US charges individuals with treason.

Risen got it better than others though in some ways. Binney and his family were held at gunpoint. Nacchio was blackmailed.

Risen wasn't charged. His source was.

Nacchio was one of several executives at a variety of companies charged with bilking shareholders out of tens of millions of dollars. The case against him appears to have been quite strong: he stipulated to a number of high-dollar sales of his stocks during times where he knew the price of Qwest's stock was going to crater.

Yes, see the other thread. Responded there.

Right, he was involved in insider trading. If you don't do anything illegal it's hard to blackmail you for it. That was the claim. Blackmail. Sure, he did something wrong(-ish).

Do you have evidence for "blackmail" beyond the word of someone who bilked shareholders out of tens of millions of dollars by selling insider shares in advance of earnings restatements?

Lol.

Source that Risen was charged with the Espionage Act? The Wikipedia page just mentions Sterling. Binney was never indicted for anything. As for Nacchio: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/qwests-joseph-nacchio-tries... ("Nacchio, after all, had deep pockets and millions of dollars in legal indemnification from Qwest. He fully exhausted the federal-appeals process and still lost his case, Eid said.")

You are right about Risen and Sterling. I think you get the point though. The leverage placed on Risen to reveal his sources and the placement of Sterling under the Espionage Act - the use of backroom deals to keep Risen's publication of mass surveillance out of the Times when it was first published - the use of NSLs - the hacking of the Associated Press to spoil their sources during the Benghazi Affair. The US uses these things to curdle journalistic coverage and their sources.

Binney wasn't indicted for anything. He and his family was held at gunpoint and threatened.

The link you gave just had people calling Nacchio pathetic. Was there a specific fact you were trying to highlight? (I mentioned character defamation in the top post.)

Espionage is not treason.

The Espionage Act in the US serves a similar role to the broader treason laws in many other countries, which often include the kind of offenses included within the Espionage Act. So, while "espionage" and "treason" are, indeed, different words, being prosecuted for what German law calls treason may well be more analogous to being prosecuted in the US under the Espionage Act than it is to any other US offense.

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