Ask HN: Just curious, how prevalent is the use of nootropics‎ among HN members? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Just curious, how prevalent is the use of nootropics‎ among HN members?

44 pointsmarkhall63 comments

Four months ago, 200+ comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9242379

Elaborating on one of the ideas there:

If there were a simple molecule that increases your brain function by a significant percentage without negative long-term consequences, evolution would have probably found it already.

That's not necessarily true. While I agree that the production of these chemicals takes a lot of energy/resources which may not be worth the tradeoff within the human body, there is no reason to believe such benefits cannot be achieved through externally produced drugs. Also, evolution is a game of chance, and the required mutations may not have occurred in humans yet.

That's the thing. Evolution has found a lot of molecules that provide immediate benefits with little long-term consequences (along with a lot that have long-term consequences too). The pharmaceutical industry just hasn't found them all yet.

Every once in a while the urge strikes me to order about 20 ampoules of an amazing nootropic from behind the iron curtain made from enzymatically refining growth factors from the brains of pigs, and then loading 5ml into a sterile syringe and stabbing it into the most muscular part of my thigh.

Pushing the plunger down, the elixir streams through the 20 gauge needle. I feel no pain, Ever Neuro Pharma, the maker, is wise enough to include some local anesthetic.

A serene state of heightened focus and recall is only 10 seconds away.

Cerebrolysin has a very real effect, and we know that from studies in rats and humans. Its approved for a variety of conditions in 44 countries, and confers an objective improvement in the capabilities of Parkinson's patients for example.

It's revitalizing and it raised my average jeopardy score (self-scored in my own style) by about 3 correct answers per game.

I have enjoyed a variety of nootropics, and am very happy to have gotten my hands on some NSI-189, a DARPA funded molecule that aimed to create the war fighter of the future.

It's currently undergoing clinical trials, but I have in my possession about 4.5 grams of the hippocampal stem cell promoting substance.

I was very surprised to learn that everything referenced here is real and that this is not an excerpt from an unpublished William Gibson novel. Have you considered a sideline writing cypberpunk fiction?

Damn, where do I sign up?

Have you considered writing short science fiction? Deadly serious, here: this is very well written.

Thank you for the kind words, they make me particularly happy because I felt completely mentally shot post-burnout from an awful consulting project, I'm glad I still have it, and I think NSI definitely helped my recovery.

My original goal post-college was to write, direct and self-fund microbudget movies. I got caught up in the self-funding part.

Here is my latest attempt at solving the money problem once and for all so I could focus on writing:

I called it the Winter Startup Challenge, and my goal is to defossilize one human activity.

http://wsc.willholloway.net/index.html

Theres some more (and photos) about nootropics here:

http://wsc.willholloway.net/nootropics.html

http://www.subzeroscientific.com/#!faq/c18ek looks like your competitor. Ancillary cannabis investment is pretty hot right now, you might want to pitch Arcview. https://arcviewgroup.com/

"Best part to predict the future is to live it." There's great deal of science fiction about enhancement, but usually it discusses nanotechnology or compute-based augmentation; there's less out there that would cover the impact of actually understanding how the brain works ("the brain genome project") and developing more "natural" solutions.

Re: movies. Charles Stross ('cstross' on here) mentioned how television has effectively replaced the short story as commercial medium -- so youtube shorts could effectively have the same impact short stories (e.g., Flowers for Algernon -- the original story about enhancement) once had.

tl;dr Please write a modernized "Flowers for Algernon", perhaps as a film short.

You and the other commenters piqued my interest in writing a sci-fi short story. I'm currently trying to raise a f&f funding round and then on to a crowd funding round, but I thought maybe I could justify the time if I put a little product placement for my invention in there.

I was thinking about it and since we have seen the drug induced super-intelligence story a few times, I was thinking of incorporating some of the ideas of David Pierce, from his seminal work The Hedonistic Imperative.

http://hedweb.com

Can't promise anything but I'll let you know if I do!

How do you find this compares to methylphenidate or amphetamines?

Any question about nootropics deserves at least one answer that points towards Gwern's nootropics notes[1]. Additionally, you can search (I suggest searching for both gwern and nootropics in comments to identify stories) as this topic has come up a few times before and a lot of people have chimed in with their own experiences.

1: http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics

Tumbleweeds seems to indicate "not very".

My view, FWIW: silly fad. Non-scientific. Just sleep more and get a moderate amount of exercise and you'll probably be right.

Not a user, and never have myself, but calling it non-scientific seems to be quite a stretch.

People try some of these things based on studies with 12 people or just anecdotal evidence on forums. Then sometimes you're ordering research chemicals from the internet so who knows. We're not talking FDA stuff here.

perhaps, I was thinking stuff like provigil/modafinil.

I tried Modafinil a while back, maybe a few years ago. It kept me awake, but that was it. No improved concentration, no boost in energy. YMMV

Exact experience here.

Saw an interesting and relevant discussion in this thread earlier today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9877773

The user willholloway seems to have quite a bit of experience (using deprenyl/azilect as opposed to amphetamines to prevent neurodegeneration) and is touting a new "small-molecule drug", NSI-189, as a future major treatment for "depression, ptsd, and other neurodegenerative disorders."

Edit: whatdya know, he posted here as I was typing this.

I know how skeptical and cynical HN can be, so I thought I should add that while I've become an evangelist, it isn't me that is claiming NSI-189 as a treatment for depression and ptsd, its the maker Neuralstem, and it's backed up by autopsied rats whose hippocampus grew 20% in size after the drug was administered.

Here is an interesting blog post from the maker about NSI-189 and NZT from the movie limitless.

http://www.neuralstem.com/neuralstem-ceo-blog/86-i-cant-give...

I think NSI is such a cool story because besides perhaps rescuing millions of people from the despair of PTSD, it is so similar to the concept of NZT in Limitless.

And just like in Limitless, it is not easy to procure at the moment.

Did you experience major depression prior to taking the drug, or have you talked to any major depressive people who also tried the drug? Have you experienced any negative side effects from the drug, or talked to anyone who experienced negative side effects? I am pretty cautious about trying new drugs, as some currently legal drugs can carry dangerous side effects (ie: viibryd causing brain shocks in active patients).

Note that a similar question was asked in the thread I linked:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9880661

Not that it would hurt to discuss it further here.

No major depression, just work related burn out and the ordeal of coming of age during the Bush administration.

You mean like coffee? Almost everyone, I bet you. Why? #1 drug in the world.

You'll probably get anecdotal responses from members wo self select by having something interesting to say, which is correlated to using a nootropic.

A poll MAY work better!

I should note that I am over 40 and overweight but am losing weight on a fairly regular basis. My goal is within another 2 years to drop down to a manageable weight and hopefully reduce my intake of metformin altogether. High-blood pressure runs in my family, so I think its unlikely if I lose a lot of weight, that my use of high-blood pressure control medications will abate.

I start every morning as follows: 1. 2 800mg Nootropils 2. 1.5 Wakalert Tablets 3. My diet pills from the doctor here in Thailand 4. 1 Herbessar for my high-blood pressure

Wash it down with a cup of coffee.

Then an hour or two later, I start drinking iced green tea with no sugar and eat a breakfast with carbs, then I take: 1. 1 Hyzaar pill for my high-blood pressure 2. 1 Prenolol for my highblood pressure 3. 1 Metformin of my diabetes

Then, I have a yoghurt.

I sometimes have a snack of whole wheat crackers and hummus

Then, I eat dinner that is 2/3 veggies and 1/3 meat

My sleeping and work schedule are as follows: 1. I wake up between 10am and Noon each day 2. I go to sleep between 2am and 4 am every day 3. My workday starts between 11am and Noon 4. I take a break from 4pm/ 5pm to 8pm/9pm each day 5. During my break, I hang out with my kid, watch TV, read books, write, do strategic thinking for my businesses/ jobs, eat dinner, and take a walk. 5. My second shift starts 8pm/9pm to Midnight/1am 6. Then I read, play games, watch tv, etc... until I go to sleep

Then before I sleep, I take the following: 1. 1 Metformin 2. My nighttime diet pills

I work 7 days a week between 6 and 10 hours a day, mostly around 7 hours.

Nootropics are just a small part, but I consider them a very important part. Since, I do lots of academic editing, I find the quality is much higher under the influence of nootropics then not. But, my use of nootropics integrates them into my lifestyle.

Your brain is probably the most subtle instrument in the universe and you're plain stupid if you're going to blast it with synthetic drugs the long term effects of which are still unclear. And for what? Most of you people are already brilliant just like that.

I used to take modafinil quite heavily. It was great for being able to get up at 4am before my day job and get work done. I did notice that although it made me more awake and made it easier to get into the zone I tended to be so driven to get things done that I wouldn't think deeply about problems. I often wrote scrappy code to get shit done then realize a few days later it could have been written far quicker and neater in some other way. Though this may have been due to lack of sleep as you can't really tell if you've been getting enough when taking modafinil.

Probably lack of sleep. Modafinil itself only has slight nootropic effect if any, both in my experience and in studies. That said, I have noticed similar pattern when overdosing caffeine or amphetamine. Though nothing like it when talking large doses of piracetam.

Sleep is crucial, Anything damaging it hurts performance a lot. Modafinil is only a way to keep part of normal performance when undersleeping.

Nootropics aside, I've felt my best when I have:

1) Had a low carb, high protein medium fatty diet.

2) Worked out heavily for 40 minutes to an hour

3) Slept for atleast 6h 30m

I've experienced amazing focus and quick thinking on such days, not to say of the health benefits too!

My main interest in nootropics is with microdosing LSD or Mushrooms. It gives the sharpening of senses and elevation of mood you get when coming down from a trip or the day after. Haven't done it yet, but I am very intrigued.

A redditor explains how he fared from 7 months of microdosing: https://www.reddit.com/r/microdosing/comments/38sef1/7_month...

I'm too scared of what could interact with my SSRI.

From my own experience, vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine) pairs quite well with my SSRI (lexapro). I'm not sure what most of the other substances in this thread are, or if vyvanse would even be considered a nootropic by any standard, but it has greatly enhanced certain cognitive abilities for me (most notably task saliency, but also multitasking and recall, among others).

Of course, my need (or desire) for the two drugs is probably linked to the same root cause since serotonin and dopamine are very much related in their uses by the brain, so it would probably be best to consult with your doctor to help ensure that the amphetamine doesn't interfere with your SSRI. The two are often prescribed together, from what I understand.

I'm taking lots of Modafinil lately. I particularly appreciate its effects on concentration and long-term memmory.

How much have you been taking daily? For how long? Experienced any side effects?

I do have my fair share of Modafinil. Works on me as it should [1]. Though I do experience mouth sores by the 8th or 9th day onwards if I take them continually.

[1] - http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil

I've heard of similar things happening with drugs like Adderall or Vyvanse. Is/was it from your tongue darting around your mouth a lot?

Yeah my tongue did get the "restless tongue syndrome" ..

I was sent this document a while ago from an acquaintance who dabbles in nootropics; it may be of interest to those looking to try something new: https://bit.ly/1CHzody

I recently started taking L-Theanine and caffeine (mostly via coffee, but I occasionally use caffeine powder). It seems to give me some solid focus for a few hours, but to be honest I'm not sure if it's a placebo effect.

Yeah, I take l-thenaine + caffeine in the morning. I can't drink coffee since it seems to give me acid indigestion in the morning but caffeine pills are the perfect substitute for me.

Keeps me alert and awake in the morning, which is when I tend to have the least motivation.

Same here, I couldn't tell if the focus was from the L-Theanine or placebo. Unfortunately I'd also get a terrible headache many hours later and have my sleep disrupted (again, hard to tell if it was placebo or not).

I still have the majority of a bottle left, so maybe I'll skip the caffeine and give it another go at some point.

You can take that combination with green tea too.

I take Adderall at work whenever I can get my hands on it, which is rarely.

I found that piracetam and oxiracetam did result in moderate improvements in cognition and ... blanking on the word... ... "verbal improvements". <= That type of stuff would happen less, in other words.

However, I discovered that their effectiveness would wear off over time, and worse, they'd cause me to be easily aggravated. I didn't realize how bad it actually was until I was making life really difficult for my partner and promised them I'd stop so that we could see if the agitation went away.

Well, it did, and I've chosen not to continue taking them. I've also found that this is a fairly common side effect among users, so watch out. (And yes, I was taking choline along with them.)

I wonder if these are even safe to take? Some people seem to write praises about it but it's not known if it really does make you smarter or not.

Well, nothing really beats smoking sativa and drinking coffee. Vastly improved concentration, uptake of information, problem solving, writing & speaking. Constant hunger and desire to eat enormous amount of food is the only real downside.

If you're a programmer and need to take this sh*t just to do your job, maybe you should think about changing professions. (Programmer here that only drinks coffee and drinks alcohol to get the balmer peak)

Alcohol is probably a harder drug than anything anyone else is recommending in this thread.

And this isn't about surviving our job. It's about reaching our full potential.

Just out of curiosity, what makes those things any different? Do you feel caffeine helps you do your job or is it just something you enjoy?

I have never tried Modafinil, but I have heard of it. He said they were very good.

Downvotes? He's pretty accomplished in the psychedelic arts.

Who? The question is who?

You want me to name names? I'm not talking about a licensed doctor or psychiatrist ^_^

No, they want you to stop being coy. If it's your family member, friend, dealer or whatever, nobody cares. Almost everyone using this site has a dealer of something, whether it be mundane and legal like coffee, alcohol and antidepressants, or less legal and through less reputable sources.

The submitter asked how prevalent is it for people in the community to use these drugs? I said I don't use it but I know someone who does.

He didn't ask for trip reports. How is that irrelevant or unhelpful? I don't see any reason to say my relation to this person, it is a hacker who I'm talking about.

I think I see what you were trying to say. You heard of modafinil, and the person who mentioned it to you said they were very good. The way you originally worded it makes the clauses seem independent (you could have heard about it from some brochure, or a movie, or anything). I think people downvoted you because "He said they were very good." taken by itself doesn't identify the "he", and it sounds like you are trying to imply some secretive information you have but are unwilling to share.

Imagine your first sentence wasn't present, and what people implied from your post.

I can see how it wasn't totally clear now, I was a bit tipsy when I wrote this comment.

These topics should be blocked in HN. As those retards do not know what they are doing at the moment, but there are some younger audience reading HN, which might get confused with the thinking that unlocking your potential, might be achieved just by taking unapproved chemical drugs.

Could you explain the downfalls of taking nootropics [that you are implying]?

Yes, if you have medical degree to understand it. If not, please consult to your GP first, then consult with fda.gov and their procedures. If that will be too much for your brain(either because of too much usage of nootropics, or because you were born with mental illness), you could just think of analogy that eating mammals shit isn't healthy and can cause serious damage for you.

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