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Comment by prostoalex | Hacker News Reader

Considering Instacart now offers its couriers an option to sign up as employees, I'd be curious to see how many take them up on that offer.

A part-time employee status (vs contractor) generally comes with loss of control over one's working hours, 30-hour weekly caps (to avoid the ACA penalty), and compensation setup that involves some kind of (likely minimum) wage + bonus instead of straight-up 1099 income.

Most of the gig economy (Uber, TaskRabbit, PostMates) is built around flexibility of hours, and freedom to not only accept a gig, but to refuse one (which you lose if you're in an employer-employee relationship and the boss is simply assigning it to you).

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Doesn't Uber ban you if you don't accept almost all fares?

The problem with this models is that you're not really an independent contractor - you're simply on-demand casual labour.

The Internet element makes it unnecessary to stand outside the factory gates every morning, which is certainly a benefit.

But all the obligations remain one way. You have to accept the work, but if you decide to take time out you can be "fired" from the system without notice, at will, at random, and with zero come-back against the "employer."

I think with Uber you can control when you do and do not show up as a driver, so its choose your own hours in that sense

Yet, if you don't log in during off-peak hours enough, you end up getting pushed down the list, essentially being punished for not working certain hours.

In my completely unscientific survey of asking my Uber drivers how they like their job, I've never had a single one complain about their employment arrangement. Most of them talk about how much they like the flexibility to work the hours they want. This is across a diverse group of drivers from young college kids, new immigrants, and semi-retirees. Is my sample set an anomaly or have others heard similar stories?

If the workers in the "gig economy" really are generally happy and their employers are happy and their customers are happy, I'm not sure I see a good reason to toss new regulations into the mix.

did it cross your mind that they may not bitch about their job to a person who can fire them (you)? If their rating falls below 4, they are essentially canned by uber.

Also, there's plenty of room for regulation even if customers and employees are happy. Uber is a giant negative externality, and we should force them to internalize it.

> Uber is a giant negative externality

Could you elaborate on this?

Uber drivers who are unhappy probably leave uber more often than if they were happy.

Therefore any random driver is more likely to enjoy uber instead of disliking uber.

Right. That's a grain of salt I take when I talk to Uber drivers. That said, I've had several drivers who were former taxi drivers, and much prefer working for Uber.

Here in Minneapolis, the taxi driver business is dominated by our large (30k+) Somali community. I'm starting to see Somalis and Kenyans more as drivers now, when just a year ago they tended to be caucasian. This tells me Uber is making a real dent in the taxi driver employee base.

I think you underestimate how powerful the rating system is on the behavior of the people who serve you on a day to day basis is.

It's quite possible that Uber drivers do not want to give you any reason to give a negative rating, including being open about their actual feelings about the economic arrangements that govern their relationship to you.

I have a friend I met completely outside of Uber who is a full-time Uber driver. He says he loves driving, meeting all sorts of people, and choosing his own hours. It's obviously just one anecdote, but I'm pretty sure he's not lying.

I'm sure he likes that part of it, but does he like how Uber does things specifically?

Recently he was annoyed that they were taking longer than he'd like to process the paperwork for his newly purchased car. Other than that I don't recall any specifics.

I was on the verge of giving an Uber driver a bad rating once because he wouldn't stop yapping about how great Uber is for him (I had not asked, and I generally prefer my rides to be quiet).

And let's not forget pride, and denial. I have had many lousy jobs in my life. When I get the second universal question, "Do you like your job?". I always respond, "It's o.k.--it's just temporary anyway!" (The first universal question I get is "What do you do?".)

I really don't like those questions. I know they are necessary questions in some settings, but overused questions by the "I define myself by what present occupation I currently have people."

As to this rating system; I'm sorry people, companies are overusing it. I'm kind of sick of it. I couldn't imagine buying a four door, 2008 or newer vehicle(until recently), Uber approved vechicle, and have to worry about customer ratings. These ratings should be private, and if the employee is a bad apple; fire him!

They're told by Uber that they must give this narrative. It may be true for some, but for others, telling the truth would be grounds for termination.

The driver explicitly made himself available in the system, but the choice of hours and choice of location to idle by is still up to the driver. With employee relationship, Uber can mandate the driver be by the football arena at 6 pm.

But if you want to work at hours convenient to you, then you probably won't make much money.

Most people aren't out driving people to the airport at 5am for the fun of it. For people who drive Uber as a primary source of income, sure there's some notional freedom. But in practical terms, there are times that you can productively work at and times that you can't.

Same thing goes for PostMates.

So in other words, the flexibility of those hours stays roughly equal. If someone is relying on Uber for their primary source of income, the 30-hour cap might be a definite turn-off.

Now, it's not a given that Uber will institute that, but I think the way the laws are worded in this country every single part-time employer has that policy just to avoid future liabilities.

Except, as has been shown time and again, people who take advantage of that flexibility end up being punished, making the flexibility not really flexible. Uber, for instance, will stop offering you gigs if you turn too many down, or don't drive often enough during peak hours.

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