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Comment by saiya-jin | Hacker News Reader

oh please, no american-style patriotism here in europe. I respect our american friends, but please, just... no. to give reasons would mean insulting probably more than few, so I refrain from that. let's say we're not all the same, we've grown up in different environments, and there are quite a few things I personally don't like in current US, and would not see many reasons to be proud.

that we have our own issues is true, just as everybody else out there, including US. personally I am proud of any european space achievement, especially since it's obvious how hard it is to do some coordinated international effort.

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You already have that exact same patriotism there.

Enter any thread, on any major forum online, and bring up any of the following topics: healthcare, crime rates, gun control, two party systems, standard of living, inequality, conservative religiousness. You'll be rapidly overwhelmed by bragging from Europeans, about how they're superior.

You can't get away from the boastfulness out of Scandinavia, Germany, France, the UK, the Netherlands - about how they're all superior to America on any given topic. I've yet to find a major forum where this doesn't occur.

I disagree that patriotism or nationalistic bragging is in any way uncommon in Europe.

Usually, national pride > Euro pride.

Regarding the specific issues you raised, I may mention it, not out of pride, but just as concrete examples of things that work fine elsewhere and could work in the US, despite what some conservative folks would want you to believe.

> You can't get away from the boastfulness out of Scandinavia, Germany, France, the UK, the Netherlands - about how they're all superior to America on any given topic. I've yet to find a major forum where this doesn't occur.

You do realize all these "boasts" tend to come from people who don't live, and usually have never lived, in said countries, right? Not to mention the whole Scandinavia deal which comes 99% from americans talking about it like it's the true land of the free, or something. Scandinavia's pretty great for a lot of reasons, don't get me wrong, but unless you're frequenting very nationalistic forums, poeple tend to complain about their country rather than boast it. The grass is always greener in the other country. (Except for Scotland. The grass is greenest in Scotland.)

"The grass is greenest in Scotland"

That's a bit harsh - have you seen our weather, foodstuffs, national sporting teams or famously short tempers....

Of course, wouldn't surprise me if our grass wasn't rather green, but I refer you to our my comment about the weather!

What if Germany, France and Scandinavia were superior to the US? The murder rate in the US is 3 times higher than in Europe, French banlieues are pretty harsh but have nothing on Northeast Philly, creationism is a non-issue on the Old Continent outside minor communities, and US healthcare is a total mess. I saw this video the other night about a team of physicians going somewhere near Bristol, TN. What's this? It's scenes you'd think you'd see in Africa.

You're trapped either way. If being objectively superior is the criteria for celebration (or as you see it, bragging), then the US trounces any of those countries in space and can be celebrated. If superiority were irrelevant, then it would be fine for the US to celebrate also.

I think this view of celebration as bragging is your real issue.

ok you got me there, due to my bad wording. I am not specifically proud of European achievements (although our bureaucracy can be spectacular, so it's even bigger achievement in my eyes), if China/India/Russia/whoever would be doing some successful novel space exploration missions, I would be proud equally. And by same logic, same is valid for US (and this mission).

It's just that I long consider myself citizen of this world, rather than citizen of some pre-marked real estate, which was different 500 (or even 100) years ago, and will no doubt change beyond recognition many times in future. patriotism goes in direct opposition to this belief, bringing "us and them" mentality (with obvious emphasis that "us" is better), which I personally believe isn't something to be proud of and strive for in 21st century. Bear in mind this is my personal opinion, I don't represent all citizens of Europe any more than you do represent all US citizens :)

>>> You'll be rapidly overwhelmed by bragging from Europeans, about how they're superior.

Very few of those people are actually European. For one, nobody introduces themselves as European :)

I heard they're just American teenagers trying to troll people.

I have a habit of checking the profiles of people who brag about how Europe is superior - such as by saying Europeans aren't posting such comments. You can try it; most are European. Such as yourself.

Well obviously I made the mistake of not considering comments like mine as bragging.

Please link to a video showing a group of people from the UK chanting

"N-H-S N-H-S" *

*NHS - National Health Service for the UK

Not quite what you asked for, but "Save our NHS, it is the best!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB5tJNJSER4

> and there are quite a few things I personally don't like in current US, and would not see many reasons to be proud.

As an American, I agree that we don't have much to be proud of lately, but I think that's why it's especially important to rally around achievements like the success of our space program as citizens. Despite how it may appear from abroad, the US is more divided than ever at home, and our government pursues policies that many of our citizens don't agree with. It's very, very rare that we can all get together as citizens and be truly proud of something our nation has done, and it serves as a way to build good will between people who normally would never come together. Please don't try to take this away from us.

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