- Why is Tsipras ignoring the people?
- Why do people think the Greek government didn't have the choice (eg '#thisisacoup' on Twitter)? Just because it's a difficult choice doesn't mean the choice didn't exist.
2. #thisisacoup refers to the offer made. Offering a country to give up sovereignty is a coup, pretty much. It goes against all democratic principles Europe was founded on. The alternative (grexit) is impossible without support from ECB/IMF to prevent a complete collapse of the financial system. Tsipras didn't prepare for this plan B. So Germany made Greece "an offer they couldn't refuse": Greece has 72 hours to implement all sorts of laws or face utter destruction.
Related: Why didn’t Greece implement some reforms already? Everywhere it seems to be a common understanding that reforms are only going to be implemented in return for more money. However, it is fairly obvious that it is in the country’s best interest to e.g. tackle its tax-collection problem regardless of whether or not new euros arrive. Why then does northern Europe have to insist on (among others) this reform and offer an incentive in the form of new credits to have it implemented? Can we go to Greece next week and say “Unless you pay us 80 billion over the next 3 years, we’re going to stop collecting taxes and face ‘utter destruction’!”? Can we then continue and blame them for staging a coup when they insist they’ll only pay those billions if we, in fact, do continue to collect taxes?
> Greece faces [utter destruction] solely due to Greek overspending and irresponsibility
Not true. Have you been following the discussion? It's a multifaceted problem. One huge aspect is that the production in Greece can't compete with production in northern Europe. Besides, moral grandstanding doesn't solve anything. Bad policy just makes the situation in Greece worse. So we shouldn't do that. Punishing people for the mistakes of their government is cruel and pointless.
> What Germany offered was help under the condition that Greece stops killing itself.
Unfortunately, nope. Germany offered more debt to a country already in debt, and demanded the sort of reform that damages the already deeply depressed economy. It's not help if it's not helping.
> Related: Why didn’t Greece implement some reforms already?
Because Germany forbade it. Syriza wanted to raise taxes and take on tax evaders ages ago. Germany said no, because that would be "unilateral action" and would lead to even greater hostility. Did you follow the crisis at all?
Then don't take it.
I think it's really that simple. If Germany's offer (and everyone else's, but the focus seems to be on Germany) is so horrible, then don't take it.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but... words fail me.
I think that was the meeting all about: They told Tsipras that he either sign a deal or face oblivion one way or another.
Greece had no real allies.
The people in Greece made a choice last week and are ready to make many difficult choices. The problem is that we (me and other citizens) are caught between the hammer and the anvil, on one side we have Europeans who don't care and on the other a corrupted government who doesn't want to take on anyone, oligarchs (ship-owners, tax-evaders, etc.). See my other comment above for details. (to be posted in a while).
So because you don’t want to fix your government and continue the oligarchic corruption, the rest of Europe must pay? Please explain why Germany should continue to pour money into Greece if, after five years of known problems, there are still oligarchs and tax evaders there.
[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Christoforakos#Auslief...
Unfortunately there are also lots of us, including our government, that like to pretend that our country is better and doesn't do the same kind of corruption like most Mediterranean countries.
Like the Porto mayor yesterday stated, pretending that we are the most well behaved poor in poor's street.
Not now, but they'll have plenty soon, after this German farce. Podemus will win in Spain, the PS on Portugal and let's see what will happen in Italy.
Who wants to be a cheerleader for the EU after all this? This crisis has cast a pall over the whole European project. It's shown that the odious, un-caring, self-centred politics we all despise in our national politics is just as rampant and alive in the heart of European Union politics.
You may want to consider your own pension. If you are about to say that it's with a private bank and thus safe, you may want to look up Cyprus and what happened there.
Make no mistake : the price of your convenience now is being destitute and even hungry if you don't own a house when you lose your job above age 50 or so. Nobody's hiring >50s anywhere after all. That's somewhere between 10 and 30 YEARS you'll spend as a beggar, once you're not capable of working anymore.
Still sound like a bargain ?
And less accountable.
It's almost comical.