Comment by drzaiusapelord | Hacker News Reader

Comment by drzaiusapelord | Hacker News Reader

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Considering U-6 unemployment is about 12% right now, perhaps this is a feature and not a bug. I still don't understand why Disney and others are allowed to do the things they do with abusing H1B's. Or why firms think they need someone with some fraudulent/substandard foreign degree instead of investing in domestic workers.

There's a discussion about labor to be had here and it should be focused on domestic labor abuses. Unfortunately, these things are rarely discussed and H1B and other abusive programs only rarely flare up in the news, everyone sees them for what they are, but there's no political will to fight them.

Immigration's external costs are ignored as well. The source country is constantly having a brain drain, for example. Its amusing to me to see HN'ers with this pretentious global perspective who have no problem taking the top 20% of the people from countries that need them and thinking themselves humanitarians because they got them a coding job in the valley.

If we started being serious about cutting immigration, there would be more political pressure for these foreign countries to get their shit straight. More local entrepreneurs, more devs focusing on local problems, etc. The status quo right now of fleeing to Western ecomomies just guarantees poor outcomes in poorer nations. We shouldn't be proud of that. Jogesh shouldn't be writing disposable freemium games for some rich guy's son who thinks himself "the next Steve Jobs," he should be helping Indians and the Indian economy with his skills.

Why should hiring managers be required to give you preferential treatment vs. someone born in a much poorer country who happens to be willing to do the same (or, likely, better) work for a lower cost?

Its a cute fact that you and the hiring manager were both lucky enough to have parents who lived in the U.S. when you were born, but that doesn't make you a better or more worthy person than someone born in a poorer country. (You already have access to a stronger social safety in the form of unemployment, social security, subsidized healthy insurance, etc if you find yourself unable to compete with foreign talent.)

The idea that some people should be considered more worthy than others by our society just because of where they were born or who there parents are is the definition of xenophobia and racism.

You should read up on the literature on brain drain. In addition to your comment being morally abhorrent ("people born in poor countries should be forced to stay there and fix shit so people born in rich countries don't have to deal with it") its also not well supported by the facts. Giving people the chance to get high returns from their education incentivizes a much larger group of people to invest in their education than end up leaving the country.

Given that the same worker ends up making 2-3x in a developed country what they would with their exact same skills in a poorer country and ends up sending much of that extra money back in the form of remittances, immigration is generally a positive force for those "left behind" (not to mention those who immigrate).

"If we started being serious about cutting immigration, there would be more political pressure for these foreign countries to get their shit straight."

Spoken like someone who never had the idea of moving to another country.

Here is the problem - those 12% unemployed will still walk around pretending that USA is the bestest country in the world where people have 'gotten their shit together', than to move to a different country and get a job - something that is unbelievably insanely easy if you are an American citizen.

Well said. Those 12% can move abroad, with the manufacturing jobs, for example. But no, that would be out of the question.

Why don't you let Jogesh decide for himself what he'd like to do?

He certainly can, but as a citizen I should have preferential right to work instead of my job taken from me and handed to H1B's.

Consider this: Maybe one of the biggest challenges today for the USA to unleash its true potential, is the sense of entitlement that has been allowed to grow on top of the foundation that the US society builders laid down through hard work. Many of which were immigrants, ironically.

Do you have a law degree?

Do Fortune 500 companies trust you to represent them?

The job will just remain unfilled when the author leaves the US...

>The job will just remain unfilled when the author leaves the US...

If they pay H1B-esque wages and conditions, yes. Pay competitive salaries and benefits and you'll have qualified people. The idea that we can't fill that position with US talent is completely asinine.

See, all that money that employers are hoarding and that native-born employees have a birth right to get, is coming from foreign. By design. Forcefully imposed by USA in the first place. Most countries were very happy with closed markets until USA decided to force-feed them globalization in the name of democracy and free-market. It killed all the local businesses by cheaper larger American companies. So it was fun when USA had the full control of production line. At that time most Americans, your parents and their generation, didn't do anything for long term benefits and said - "oh well, it's next generation's problem". (It is the same issue you will see with people saying global climate change is not an immediate concern, btw.)

So now labor is also globalized. And hence you have a cheaper larger pool of resources which is killing the local entitlements. If you want to fix it you really need to become more socialist, create unions, and start lobbying your government.

But here is the thing - most Americans aren'y actually in the same shitty situation as the people in other countries who had just gotten out of colonial rule and ended up with globalization before being prosperous. Most Americans are still driving gas guzzlers while being 'unemployed'. Pray that they grow a brain before the tide swings too far to the other side, like it has in most other countries where USA is trying to destroy local markets.

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