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Comment by heimatau | Hacker News Reader

The first three days of 24 hour day fasts are (:edited:) mostly painful. Headaches, migraines, agitation, etc. They are not fun nor for the faint of heart. I'd suggest a five day, if you body can allow it. Days four through ten can be the most rewarding. This is all based on personal experience/opinion.

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>pure detox. Headaches, migraines, agitation, etc.

Detox is a pseudo-science word anymore. Is that detox or just your blood sugar level going down?

I think clearing out your bowels would be considered de-toxifying. As, much of that stuff just stays inside your intestines unless you do some kind of colon cleanse (men should do this with their doctor at 40-50; depending on how much red meat they eat). Also, with fat being burned and toxins are mostly stored in the fat, I have a difficult time understanding how losing fat isn't detoxing.

I meant to say it's painful, not 'pure detox'. Headaches and agitation isn't fun to deal with on a constant basis. But science barely understands the wide range of benefits from fasting. Whether that means empowering your immune system (which is what fasting does, energy to digest is now used to fight illnesses, etc.)

A nice read for the uninformed: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1834

Detoxification is a myth: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/05/detox-my...

There is no science behind it. There is also no science behind extended fasting, giving your body a "break" from digesting and so forth. By all means fast if you feel like it and you believe there is some health benefit - you are harming no one, after all - but please don't try to justify it with medical science.

Actually, not eating for an extended period does have one very significant effect. It radically changes the makeup of your microbiome. I suspect that people who experience health benefits from "detoxes" typically suffer from dysbiosis, and by restricting food supply they essentially hit the "reset" button on their gut bacterial populations.

...and then the bacteria reverts to previous within a few days of returning to the previous diet. Gut bacteria adapts really rapidly to whatever you're eating, whether you do a "reset" in between or not.

Well, probably, but that is not absolutely certain. Sometimes, after a forest fire, the types of trees that end up dominating are different from the trees that dominated before the fire.

I find it strange that you picked a newspaper article with interviews and I posted an academic article filled with scientific citations. Maybe your ingrained belief feels validated with a newspaper article but I'd hope you'd have some scientific rigor and look at actual studies.

Agreed, but certain harmful/negative things ARE stored in your fat cells (THC from marijuana is one such example) and these do get released during extended fasts as your body burns fat. I don't think this is really in doubt.

Which specific "toxins" are in your fat?

If your colon isn't working properly you are very sick and you need a doctor ASAP not a fast.

The fact fasting (perhaps) has benefits has absolutely nothing to do with "toxins."

And what are the LD50's of those "toxins"? This is my first question to people who go on about "toxins" and "detox" and "cleansing".

I don't want an exact number, just a ballpark. Is it micrograms, milligrams or grams per kg body mass? Surely these people who know so very much about "toxins" must know the one fact that distinguishes the things we informally call toxic from the ones we don't.

It would be the hieght of intellectual dishonesty to claim something was "toxic" without having any knowledge of the LD50.

"Toxins" could be a poor word choice on my part. But our body can be slowed down with the modern food we eat, the poor environments we live in, and genetic predisposition. I think fasting is a way to remove road blocks in our body, for whatever reason they appeared.

But to be clear, I think a lifestyle of eating fruits and veggies is more effective than fasts, when trying to achieve this.

There are a lot of medical, yes scientific, benefits to fasting. At the end of the day, it helps the body out (strengthens immune system), among other ways, whereas it might be struggling with eating regularly. Also, most research would never encourage people to go without eating more than seven days, as that's starvation mode and the Hippocratic oath has some things to say about that.

Absolutely nothing you said supports the notion that toxins are looming in fat and losing fat releases them and makes you fell sick - which is exactly what you said. When questioned about this you just changed the subject to something completely different.

I'll ask again - Which specific toxins are stored in your fat? Its a simple question.

I don't have an answer for specific 'toxins', as the way I worded things is based on experience.

All I do know is that fasting has tremendous benefits to our bodies, which is based on science (most papers speak of 12 hours to three days; rarely longer). As for the granular details (answering the 'how' and 'why' questions), I'm not certain science has a definitive answer for that. My perspective is that, subjective.

Also, the tone of your comments are a bit harsh. If it's a simple question, well, cite the scientific papers that establish your point of view. Contraction point of views aren't constructive, what's your more scientifically established idea, as it relates to the benefits (or lack thereof) of fasting?

In a very loose sense of the word you could call sugar a toxin. But it has a ridiculous LD50.

(I agree with you mostly, just don't think your argument is holding water.)

I think the argument holds. Sugar has a huge and quantifiable LD50. So does, well, water. This tells us that they are pretty much non-toxic at lose doses.

If the LD50 of the "toxins" is similar to water, how can one claim that "de-toxing" will have any benefit?

In other words, how can you call it "detoxing" if none of the things are toxic?

> This tells us that they are pretty much non-toxic at lose doses.

Just because sugar doesn't kill you fast (in an LD50 way), doesn't mean it's not bad for you.

You are indeed right that those `toxins' people `detox' for are pretty nebulous.

One thing to keep in mind is that you need to drink lots of water during that time because you'll be using your fat deposits and you need water to process the fat.

Detoxing from what? Personally, my liver and kidneys pretty well no matter what I am eating (or not).

I a word.

"My liver and kidneys work pretty well."

Also headaches, migraines, agitation can be caused by lower blood sugar and lower blood pressure than what you are used to.

I believe the idea is toxins do tend to get stored in fat, so when you are running on stored fat - you can release them. I can confirm you can have sudden ups and downs when fasting and I never experienced headaches until i started.

Both headaches and sudden irritability are symptoms of low blood sugar:

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hypoglycaemia/Pages/Symptoms.as...

Which specific toxins are stored in fat?

Your body is digesting food that remained in your intestines and also fat deposits. Toxins are in the fat and removing undigested food can have a liberating affect.

Undigested food does not stay in your intestines and neither does any toxins.

Can you name any of the toxins?

'Toxins' could be a poor word choice on my part. There are things, within fat, that disrupt our body's ability to function. It could just be 'its bad fat' that was ingested by a poor diet.

You think there are pieces of fat getting stuck in your digestive system?

If food is being left behind undigested in your intestines please get off the internet and see a doctor!!!

The longest I've gone without eating was three days... it's liveable, but I can't get anything done!

Can't code, can't solder, can't do circuit design....

Taking a rest from eating...can be invigorating. That's been my experience. But don't force it. I find that I need to be prepared mentally and adjust my days to read more and do less physically demanding tasks, that is if I'm going on longer fasts.

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