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Comment by spacko | Hacker News Reader

> ... names of neighbors and close friends.

Why for christs sake do they even collect this data in the first place? This is not a database on felons or potential terrorists ... why does the government care about the neighbours of their employees???

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It's for security-sensitive positions. They ask questions to your neighbors about you to see if you're hiding anything.

Heck, just to apply to the bar I had to list eight character references plus a contact at every employer I've had in 13 years. It's pretty standard practice for trust-sensitive jobs to ferret out people who have something to hide or are lying on their application.

This is a database of potential Snowdens. The "intelligence community" is a strange, puritanical, paranoid sort of place. It wouldn't be so bad if it hadn't grown so preposterously large.

Note that this is far larger than the "intelligence community". This would include everyone from janitors who empty the trash in secure facilities to accountants, to mechanical engineers who design pumps for nuclear facilities, to web designers who write database front-ends, etc, etc, etc. And to say all of these folks are "puritanical, paranoid" is a very limited viewpoint.

If you filled out an SF86 it's because the "intelligence community" demanded it. That doesn't mean you're personally puritanical or paranoid; you're just subjected to the requirements of people who are; people who have altogether too much power and influence these days. And now those requirements have come back to bite you.

As more clarification, this is not just relevant for the "intelligence community", i.e. the three-letter-agencies. It would also apply to folks at various National Laboratories, Army bases, NASA, etc. And even for universities doing government-sponsored research. When I worked at Cal-Tech associated Jet Propulsion Laboratory, plenty of people had clearances.

We are using different definitions of the words "intelligence community". To me, if you have a clearance then that makes you part of the "intelligence community" regardless of whether your salary is paid by NSA, NASA, a defense contractor, a national lab, the Army, a university, or whatever.

If your definition of "intelligence community" includes NASA or random low-level soldiers just trying to keep their planned operations out of the hands of their adversaries, then I'd submit that your definition of "intelligence community" is functionally useless. Just say "clearance holders" if that's what you mean... there's already a very precise definition of "intelligence community" as it pertains to the U.S. anyways.

And every officer in the military has to get a Secret clearance.

Different country, similar use case (clearance) - guy I worked with says a great way to get a proper fake identity is to assume one of a dead child from years ago when documentation wasn't as precise as it is now. (gives you a real, registered birth certificate) That's where family/neighbors information comes in - agency asks them and they say "sure, I remember, he died so young"...

I've been through this multiple times. Basically they just come out to your neighborhood and ask your neighbors if they've noticed anything suspicious going on. Strange behavior, odd visitors, unexplained affluence, etc. Takes all of 5 minutes. If it were my job to vet people, I suppose I'd be doing the same sanity-checks to make sure I wasn't dealing with an unstable person: drug addict, wife-beater, etc.

And then would you retain the details forever?

I've been on other side of the coin as well. Agents came to me asking about another person. They tell you up front that it's voluntary to speak to them and that anything you say can get back to the person under investigation if that person asks for the investigation records. All in the open.

>why does the government care about the neighbours of their employees???

I think that's so they can ask the neighbours questions.

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