Hackerspace raided in Sweden
forskningsavd.se
forskningsavd.se
Ugh. Stuff like this makes me so angry.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=546067
> [Core IP CEO] Simpson added that there were 50 businesses without access to email and data due to the raid. "If you run a datacenter, please be aware that in our great country, the FBI can come into your place of business at any time and take whatever they want, with no reason," he wrote.
Bruce Sterling foreshadows "Data Havens"
"A data haven is a computer or a network that holds data protected from government action by both technical means (encryption) and location in a country that has either no laws, or poorly-enforced laws restricting use of data and no extradition treaties."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Boucher
In February of this year, the judge required him to provide unencrypted access to the drive.
(But of course, if you are at the point where your hardware is being seized, it's possible that the government already has enough evidence on you.)
I it could be argued that pleading the fifth for every single question is allowed under the Fifth Amendment because what information you think might be incriminating is also incriminating information. AKA where on December 2, 1952 and you plead the fifth. But you are willing to say where you where on the December 1, 1952 and December 3, 1952.
In the UK the government settled the question with a law making it a crime to withhold your password:
http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/ripa/encryption/faqs/
The issue hasn't really come up in Canada. Some authorities have recommended a law similar to the UK's.
Siezed computers would need to be held on to till after any trial - which could be years away. Otherwise the defence can call any computer evidence into question.
Then you have the huge issue of explaining that to the jury; the defence would probably still have a field day.
And finally, certainly here in the UK so this might not apply elsewhere, there is quite a strict mandate for handling evidence. Returning the computer and keeping the HDD's would almost certainly break those guidelines.
It's really illogical all round; the main problem being computer evidence is still treated with suspicion by Juries (probably due to technical misunderstanding) and greeted with delight by defense teams (who will take joy in asking obscure, mundane and irrelevant questions :D just to derail things)
Finally: complex investigations might really take months to complete (as in 8 or 10). And then going to trial can take upwards of 2 years.
EDIT: with all of that said I strongly disagree with the police actions in this case.
Not giving a list of seizures, even within a few hours, is definite grounds for massive legal action here. It would be unheard of, frankly.
Not giving computers back after, say, 5 months where the case was unproven or the computers irrelevant would also be wrong. In the case where information was found but no trial forthcoming stuff should be returned within 2 years.
I wont comment on the legality of the raid though; we are only getting one side of the story and it could be there is evidence to have raided them. We also haven't seen or heard about the warrant used; so we cant really speculate on the legality of the seizures.
My Swedish is a little rusty, but from what I read in the media and the police press announcement, the following happened:
The Malmo hackerspace is located in a building that has roots in the squatter/anarchist collective scene. That group was organizing a party there where they were apparently selling alcohol without a proper license.
During the raid of that party, the police simply went through the whole building. Including the hacker space.
If this is what happened then the raid had probably completely nothing to do with the hackerspace and everything with their hosts.
That sounds like a fishing expedition to me.
I don't know what the law is in Sweden, but in the US there are 4th amendment protections against that sort of thing.
http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=9462
"Police seize DJs' laptops New police chief apparently condones policy that critics call illegal and punitive"
All evidence is admissible in court no matter how it was obtained, legally or illegally.
Of course if you can prove that the evidence was obtained illegally you can file charges for that, but the evidence will still be used.
However, the court alone decides the value of the evidence presented, and thus the weight it places in such evidence.
Obviously statements from people suspected to be coerced in some way is not considered high-value evidence.
However just because evidence is admissible doesn't mean it has to be taken into consideration. Often the court will decide that certain evidence won't be taken into consideration due to how it was obtained. This is an entirely separate decision than whether or not it should be admissible.
If that's true, than the warrant would have been limited in scope. Clearly it wasn't since the police seized everything. You can be sure there's a larger agenda than busting underage drinkers.
In addition to the stuff taken mentioned in Hackerspaces post http://forskningsavd.se/2009/11/29/i-can-haz-moar-bout-teh-r...
Stuff confiscated. * 860 beers, 33 cl cans. * 39 bottles of booze. * 66 liters wine
Other illegal or "problematic" things found and seized * 6 improvised explosive devices. Of low explosive force, mainly used to make a big bang. * 3 high power green light laser pointers. May need a permit depending on power. * 4 Spring Billy Club or Collapsible Batons. Illegal in Sweden * 3 Cans of pepper spray. Illegal in Sweden. * 1 High Power Slingshot. Illegal in Sweden. * 2 Items of police uniform. This cannot be bought legally * 2 Devices for making keys and key raw-materials.
"Better start including defenses against this stuff in your planned activities - I think since the Dutch boys showed Counterfeiting and Cuff keys on their site(s) in relation to the reprap they may as well have painted a giant red bullseye on all open hardware projects. Naivety is a fearsomely expensive trait. I too was raided 11 years ago lost 8 PC’s and a bunch of software (20,000 worth) all on a false accusation - I gave up even thinking I’d ever get it back years ago... Disperse your assets, wake up to the REAL situation, Police act, then justify those action as necessary. Analyze why you where targeted and THINK. Police time is a scarce commodity, it is not used accidentally. There are 10’s of thousands of us to each one of them. Good Luck.
Sure, I’m paranoid, but, am I paranoid ENOUGH?"
and the last line is a recursive joke... ;-)
Sounds more like a serious case of having the hackspace in the wrong building with the wrong neighbours.
Also, if you're attempting to criticize the activity of lock picking in general, realize that it is a long standing tradition in the hacker community. Sergey Brin is a prominent example of a "non-evil" person who tinkered with it [1].
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/10/technology/10google.html
I assume it is the same for Sweden.
And if you've got a curious mind I cannot imagine why you would not be interested in it!
Cops aren't hackers. If you're too curious, you can't even be a cop. If I was a cop and I was busting a place doing illegal stuff and I saw lock picking gear laying around everywhere, I would think they are up to no good.
Why everyone here is shocked by thought that cops would think people publicly collaborating to defeat security measures are up to no good is a bit perplexing.
I am not saying they were up to no good. I am saying it is easily believable that they were up to no good. In fact, I would say, cops who did not assume they were up to no good would be remiss in their duties to protect the public, because in most cases, people with that kind of stuff lying around aren't into it for benevolence.