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Comment by systemtrigger | Hacker News Reader

The trouble with the Video Professor website is once you drill past the homepage you don't see anything about the $289.95.

Consider someone who arrives via deep link. To that person it appears as if all they are risking is $9.95 - even through checkout. They might click User Agreement during checkout but the only charge that reveals is...$9.95. If the visitor clicks into How it Works they will see the wrong price: $189.95. (Check for yourself: https://www.videoprofessor.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=shopping...). Only the skeptical and curious who arrive via deep link can know what happens after the 10 day trial, and even they will be overcharged by $100.

We can debate whether the product line is worth $289.95 but that is irrelevant to this issue of checkout fraud.

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It says $389.95 on that page you gave the link to.

I don't think there is checkout fraud. You checkout and you are provided enough information to know that you are purchasing a trial, you will be charged some fee (what it is is hard to determine) if you don't cancel. I think that information is provided clearly.

However if they turn out not to honor cancellation requests, that's a whole other story.

> it says $389.95 on that page you gave the link to.

I'm still seeing $189.95. Screencap: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1704650/prof.png

Let's poll. If you're reading this, visit https://www.videoprofessor.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=shopping... then report the price you see listed on that page over here: http://moderator.appspot.com/#15/e=10e098&t=10e099.

That's really weird. I'm still seeing $389. Also that page at one point for me today said there will be a monthly fee of $20 something dollars instead of what it says now.

They must be updating their site today or something, but that doesn't explain why we see different prices.

'we'll conveniently bill your credit card just $289.95 USD'.

Quite a price range they have!

No it is accurate. You are only paying for the shipping and handling. That's why it's the only thing being shown on that page.

How many people would get hooked onto their wonderful product if they thought it costs 300 to begin with. That's why they get the trial, then decide they like their tutorials, and then possibly be willing to buy it at that price. But unfortunately no one has cared whether or not the video tutorials are actually good. If they are good, then it is not a scam.

> You are only paying for the shipping and handling.

Yes but during checkout what they don't tell you is the default is to charge you $290 more and this expensive line item isn't opt-in, it's opt-out.

So are magazines. If you don't opt out they keep sending you stuff and bill you. But that initial charge is for purchasing the trial. If you don't cancel, you get billed. Not satisfied, you get a refund. This is pretty common, and not all are necessarily scams.

What magazines do you subscribe to? All the magazines and newspapers I read sell time-limited (typically annual) subscriptions, and as the year draws to a close they get more and more annoying about asking for a renewal. They are typically advertised along the lines of "10 issues for $60", and that's what they bill you for. Consumers generally only tolerate opt-out billing for ongoing services that aren't delivered in discrete units: things like electricity, water, cable TV, and WoW. A library of n videos is, on the other hand, simply n items.

Before we go into a long argument, I would like to state my intentions.

I want to convince people here that if Mr. Arrington, a person who obviously hates scammers, visits a website and prematurely concludes that it's a scam is not necessarily correct.

I hate scammers, and I'm pretty sure most people here have strong feelings about scammers too, because they are the anti-thesis of the hard worker.

But I want people who have decided, to undecided. Because I find it quite surprising how you all can so easily conclude and accuse them of being a scam from the paltry information provided in the article.

They're sly, but what profit-seeking corporation isn't sly. Are they in the gray area? I'm certainly not saying they are not a scam.

It may feel like a scam, but that does not necessarily mean it is one.

Now, to answer your question: I've subscribed to magazine subscription trials. They work like this. It is a fact. They also sell subscriptions, as you have shown.

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