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Comment by chrischen | Hacker News Reader

It does notice users on the site. And people can return the products afterwards. On their BBB profile it says most of their issues are resolved.

Why is everyone taking Arrington's word for it. It doesn't even seem like he did any research besides a quick glance at their site.

For all you know video professor makes it's money by tricking people to try, only to have people realize it was worth the 300 dollars.

I don't deny any tricking on their website, but they do have a return and refund policy that seems satisfiable. It just doesn't add up. How can they sustain their business if people can refund.

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The trouble with the Video Professor website is once you drill past the homepage you don't see anything about the $289.95.

Consider someone who arrives via deep link. To that person it appears as if all they are risking is $9.95 - even through checkout. They might click User Agreement during checkout but the only charge that reveals is...$9.95. If the visitor clicks into How it Works they will see the wrong price: $189.95. (Check for yourself: https://www.videoprofessor.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=shopping...). Only the skeptical and curious who arrive via deep link can know what happens after the 10 day trial, and even they will be overcharged by $100.

We can debate whether the product line is worth $289.95 but that is irrelevant to this issue of checkout fraud.

No it is accurate. You are only paying for the shipping and handling. That's why it's the only thing being shown on that page.

How many people would get hooked onto their wonderful product if they thought it costs 300 to begin with. That's why they get the trial, then decide they like their tutorials, and then possibly be willing to buy it at that price. But unfortunately no one has cared whether or not the video tutorials are actually good. If they are good, then it is not a scam.

> You are only paying for the shipping and handling.

Yes but during checkout what they don't tell you is the default is to charge you $290 more and this expensive line item isn't opt-in, it's opt-out.

So are magazines. If you don't opt out they keep sending you stuff and bill you. But that initial charge is for purchasing the trial. If you don't cancel, you get billed. Not satisfied, you get a refund. This is pretty common, and not all are necessarily scams.

What magazines do you subscribe to? All the magazines and newspapers I read sell time-limited (typically annual) subscriptions, and as the year draws to a close they get more and more annoying about asking for a renewal. They are typically advertised along the lines of "10 issues for $60", and that's what they bill you for. Consumers generally only tolerate opt-out billing for ongoing services that aren't delivered in discrete units: things like electricity, water, cable TV, and WoW. A library of n videos is, on the other hand, simply n items.

Before we go into a long argument, I would like to state my intentions.

I want to convince people here that if Mr. Arrington, a person who obviously hates scammers, visits a website and prematurely concludes that it's a scam is not necessarily correct.

I hate scammers, and I'm pretty sure most people here have strong feelings about scammers too, because they are the anti-thesis of the hard worker.

But I want people who have decided, to undecided. Because I find it quite surprising how you all can so easily conclude and accuse them of being a scam from the paltry information provided in the article.

They're sly, but what profit-seeking corporation isn't sly. Are they in the gray area? I'm certainly not saying they are not a scam.

It may feel like a scam, but that does not necessarily mean it is one.

Now, to answer your question: I've subscribed to magazine subscription trials. They work like this. It is a fact. They also sell subscriptions, as you have shown.

It says $389.95 on that page you gave the link to.

I don't think there is checkout fraud. You checkout and you are provided enough information to know that you are purchasing a trial, you will be charged some fee (what it is is hard to determine) if you don't cancel. I think that information is provided clearly.

However if they turn out not to honor cancellation requests, that's a whole other story.

> it says $389.95 on that page you gave the link to.

I'm still seeing $189.95. Screencap: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1704650/prof.png

Let's poll. If you're reading this, visit https://www.videoprofessor.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=shopping... then report the price you see listed on that page over here: http://moderator.appspot.com/#15/e=10e098&t=10e099.

That's really weird. I'm still seeing $389. Also that page at one point for me today said there will be a monthly fee of $20 something dollars instead of what it says now.

They must be updating their site today or something, but that doesn't explain why we see different prices.

'we'll conveniently bill your credit card just $289.95 USD'.

Quite a price range they have!

Is their return policy really 10 days? For this not to be a scam people need to explicitly know that if they don't return it within that timeframe, they'll be charged $300. Most people surely aren't aware of this, find out once they open up their credit card bill at the end of the month, and are told that their 10-day return period has expired.

That's a scam.

In their USER AGREEMENT (available from the Home page), they only mention there is a "purchase fee" but do not tell you what it is. Once you start to order, they only mention the fee under the TESTIMONIALS section (and also do not tell you what it is).

In fact, the only place I see a fee stated explicitly is in the HOW IT WORKS link, but this is not even available until you are entering your credit card information ... and the hyperlinks pointing to it do not mention a purchase fee!

It says $289.95 on the left side of the home page. You have 10 days to tell them (call) that you want to return it. You have 30 days to send it.

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