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Comment by randomsearch | Hacker News Reader

Everyone seems to be Apple-bashing, and ignoring the fact that Apple really don't make money out of your private information. They make cash out of selling devices. So their interests are more aligned with yours. You may have noticed that Google don't make their money out of selling hardware. So they make it through other means. This is really inarguable, regardless of whether you think Apple are using that for marketing or whatever.

Personally, I'm happy to pay a company with a sound business model that doesn't rely on advertising (and by proxy your private information).

How on earth some of the other commenters arrived at their worldview, I have no idea. Unusually close-minded for HN. A lot of Google employees, perhaps?

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I think the strong reaction is because the distinction between Apple and Google is much fuzzier and weaker than Tim Cook (and some commenters here) are trying to make it sound.

Apple makes money from device sales. Apple can make more money by using private information (to improve their cloud services, selling the search default to Google, for iAds and so on) - as long as they don't do something with it that makes people reconsider their next device purchase.

Google makes money from advertising. Google can make more money using private information with their advertising - as long as they don't do something with it that makes people reconsider using Google services.

There's a difference here but it's a difference of degree, not kind. At bottom, Apple and Google are both companies with incentives for collecting and using private information and risks that encourage them not to misuse it. You can try to squeeze a moral distinction out of the details, but it is spin, not substance.

> There's a difference here but it's a difference of degree, not kind.

True, but what a degree, and the difference matters [1]:

- 91% of Apple's income is from hardware.

- More that 90% of Google's income is from advertising.

There's also a very big difference between trying to understand your customers better so that you can build a better mousetrap, rather than selling their information to third parties, directly or indirectly.

[1] http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-google-microsoft-where-do...

Apple and Google both collect user data and send it to the cloud. Why does the degree matter? If it's a matter of principle, don't collect user data at all! Since Apple are collecting data anyway, I guess the reason is not principle.

IMO, the why doesn't affect personal privacy. Pure motives don't count for anything when user data falls into the hands of 3rd parties (through hacks, leaks, or divorce lawyers).

> - 91% of Apple's income is from hardware.

> - More that 90% of Google's income is from advertising.

So, in a nutshell - it's not the collection of data that is bad, but advertising? That's BS. The collection of personal data itself is inherently bad, motives be damned. Apple is no snow-flake as Tim would have you think, they also want to gain a competitive edge from aggregating and mining user data.

Apple does not just sell hardware. They charge for hardware, but they sell a well integrated combination of hardware, software and services. That's what makes Apple unique. Otherwise they would be like Samsung.

The question is how much the usefulness of that combined offering depends on collecting user data. I think the dependency is not as deep as for Google but it is growing fast if you look at the ever more central role of iCloud.

Google does not sell user information by the way. Google sells conclusions they draw from user data. I am concerned about the wealth of data Google holds about me. But I'm not that much less concerned about the data Apple holds about me.

> So their interests are more aligned with yours.

Exactly how does a company that makes money through selling you products have its interests more aligned to yours?

Because that company makes its from me, directly. It has to cater its products to ME, and not to advertisers, or enterprises, or anyone else.

But it is debatable as to whether they really do cater to you. In the end, if they release a product you don't like you have to like it or lump it. The same goes with their software.

There was a significant backlash from when they changed the style in iOS7. They didn't ask you what you wanted. There was also a backlash when they introduced Lion and got rid of "Save As" or got rid of the maximise-equivalent in Yosemite (you have to hold down Alt now, how irritating), or when they removed the Web Sharing option in System Preferences and you have to manually restart Apache etc. etc. etc.

They also removed DVD drives on laptops, never gave us a Bluray drive, stopped us being able to upgrade RAM in laptops and Mac Minis, ditched accelerated graphics for the Mac Mini etc. etc. etc.

The list is quite long of the things that they have changed or removed that you can't do anything about (and it is frequently irritating). As you decide to buy them and are happy with them, you may rationalise this as them making products that cater to you, but in truth they do not.

I say this as a developer who writes software for OSX as my day job btw. It's not an anti-Apple rant - it's more truth.

I think you're mistaking "making products with everything I want" and "Making products I want."

It's the same isn't it? :-)

Comcast also makes most of its money from users directly. Yet, somehow, the incentives are not aligned. Why is that? How might that apply to Apple?

Comcast has considerable monopoly power: in certain areas there are no good alternatives or your apartment complex might have the cables from Comcast installed but not others. Apple has less monopoly power because of Android competition.

By building and providing a product or service that you need/want/like enough to pay for?

Apple is "more aligned" as in more aligned than Google, not "more aligned" as in perfectly aligned.

Stop viewing the world in black and white.

Because money brings support and customer care too.

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