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Comment by Zarathu | Hacker News Reader

No! I realize that I sounded like a bit of a dick in my post, but that's just how I write. Let me elaborate.

I've contracted a designer before (an HNer, mind you) that literally told me that he was working on the design for about 3 weeks, without showing me any form of progress whatsoever. On the last day we were working together, he said, "I've been busy, and I haven't had time to work on it. Find another designer." He had been jerking me around the entire time without doing an hour of the work, and later admit it.

This has happened on more than one occasion. He had a brilliant portfolio.

The ones that are difficult aren't difficult because they give me opinions; in fact, that's what helps to make a great designer. I like creative people that come up with their own ideas.

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Draw a triangle.

On each corner, write:

> Quality Work > Timely Delivery > Economical Price

You're ONLY ever allowed to choose TWO.

> If you want quality work produced in a timely fashion, then expect to pay top-dollar.

> If you want work turned around fast and don't have any money to spend, expect the quality to be crap.

> If you want quality work and don't have a big budget, expect it to be attended to whenever the the service provider has some free time.

It is a maxim of business that you will never escape.

This is true of any profession, and is especially true of both programmers and designers alike.

If you are paying proper compensation, you should never have a problem getting quality work, by a designer that makes delivery of your goods a priority. Perhaps you found a bad apple, and that is unfortunate. If so, then the market should weed them out in time. But you say the designer did great work, and it sounds like they had plenty of good-paying projects elsewhere and you simply got back-burnered (and they were not candid with you, as they should have been). I've seen it happen a dozen times is every line of work.

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I forgive you for how you came across in your initial post. I'm also told that I'm a friendly fellow who sometimes comes across as... blunt, in writing.

I had the same kind of experiences as the OP. Part of what I found frustrating is that they don't respect the "2 out of 3" rule (which is mostly for engineers btw). What the designer in OP's case showed was an astounding lack of respect and common sense. I doubt compensation was a factor.

Some time ago I tried to find a copywriter to help me with a marketing campain. I talked with two people, and both were very interested, actually enthusiastic when I told them the concept. Both said (which made me protest and feel rather unconfortable) that they don't want to discuss compensation in the beginning, part because they want to give the project a shot anyways just to see what it looks like, and part because they don't know the amount of work beforehand.

After a week one of them didn't answer my phone calls, and the other sent a couple of texts completely off-topic, and obviously not very worked. I ended up writing the texts myself.

The moral of the story is that it's not a money problem. But that a percentage of "artistic types", in both mine and OP's experience, tend to show less professionalism then desired.

Your copywriters gave you a strong signal as to their professionalism when they did not want to discuss compensation up front. In the future, you should now know that anyone who does not discuss the business contract before rendering any services is either: 1) very inexperienced but may still work out or 2) not someone you'd ever want to work with.

I realize that I sounded like a bit of a dick in my post, but that's just how I write.

Then stop communicating like that. Do you also say that to those you work with, when called out on something: "I realize that I sounded like a bit of a dick in the meeting, but that's just how I communicate."? Nine out of ten times, you won't be called out and people will just think you are a dick. If you are already aware you sound like a dick, why on earth should others not think that you are in fact a dick? It's easy to give people bad impression, it's easy to lose respect and it's hard to gain it and fix that impression. Just don't give them a reason to think you're a dick in the first place.

This experience has nothing to do with the designer's design skills or work-style at all. This is an experience based on someone who didn't treat you well as a customer.

Find someone with good recommendations, contact the businesses they include in their portfolio and ask how the project went. Find someone who's clients would actually recommend and you're more likely to have a good experience because you've established that the designer has a track record for delivering a good product and providing a good customer experience.

Set smaller goals. If you're using a designer for the first time, have a 15 minute progress chat every few days. Use it as a time to cover any questions that have come up, look at his progress so far, take about any scope changes, etc.

Also, how much were you paying? A lot of designers (well, a lot of people) don't want to say no. You can oftentimes talk people into working for less than they think they are worth... Which leads to them de-prioritizing your work. If you're the least lucrative bit of work that they have, it's not good.

And, when it comes to hiring (contractor or otherwise), you've GOT TO DO THE WORK. Ask them for references, call them, and ask them hard questions.

"I realize that I sounded like a bit of a dick in my post, but that's just how I write"

You know that when you emulate a dick so thoroughly, it's very hard for people outside your brain to differentiate your simulation from a real one.

"From my experience in dealing with them, designers can either produce incredible work but be extremely difficult to work with, or produce eye pollution and be great to work with." -- The above designer you mentioned is neither.

can you elaborate on "but be extremely difficult to work with" -- ??. How a designer who produced excellent stuff was very difficult to work with?.

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