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Comment by s_dev | Hacker News Reader

"But also, I must admit that I am a little disappointed in Aaron. I understand that depression is a serious disease that can fell any person, however strong. But he chose the path of the activist long ago. And the path of the activist is to fight, for as long and as hard as it takes, to effect change. Aaron had powerful friends, a powerful support network, and a keen sense of moral cause that put him in the right. That's how he got that support network of powerful friends and fellow activists in the first place" -- J. Atwood http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-end-of-ragequitting/

I always felt this Jeff Atwood blog post was a good run down of why everyone was so upset over Aaron's suicide. It was a stupidly tragic mistake and Aaron knew better.

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That is how depression sometimes goes.

But stupid? Disappointing? These labels are not fit for fate of a severely depressed mind; logic sense ends and the risk of suicide is a roll of the dice, NOT a matter of commitment to who or what we love.

All I see is the selfpity of those left behind transformed into cynicism. It is unbecoming. In my humble opinion.

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People who don't help don't get to be disappointed.

He wouldn't have been engaging in much political activism sitting in a jail cell for 38 years.

I can't feel disappointed in Aaron at all. I would probably do the same thing in his position.

I'm disappointed in a society and a 'justice' system that pushes for this to happen.

There's actually quite a precedent of engaging in political activism from jail.

absolutely. in fact jail could have been a way to gain more attention, Gandhi?

He would never have been sent to jail for 38 years.

So how many then? 5? 10? 20?

How many less than the figure that was being thrown around as his possible sentence is he supposedly a disappointment to us all for avoiding?

Oh, I forgot, he can be an activist from prison? Nothing to worry about then!

How many on here would honestly do it for even 5 years? I wouldn't. I'd sooner kill myself out of spite.

DOJ strongly suggested they'd be shooting for a 5+ year sentence, which according to the guidelines would have required them to establish losses (stipulating that Swartz had succeeded in his ultimate plan, unimpeded by the countermeasures JSTOR and MIT erected) in the millions of dollars.

Orin Kerr suggests that the likely outcome would have been "anything from probation to a few years", depending on where the judge landed on the financial damages.

Popehat has a really good take (as usual) on the circumstances faced by Aaron Swartz, but it's not as specific as Kerr's, which is the most detailed breakdown I've seen available on what actually happened with the case:

http://volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-against-aa...

I wouldnt kill myself because of 5 years out of the 40 or so that i probably have left.

Or at the least you might wait until you were convicted and sentenced.

It would have been around 6 months if he would have taken the plea deal. If he didn't it still would not have been anything close to 38 years.

Considering the federal sentencing guidelines for the specific crimes he was charged with and the parameters of those offenses (non-remunerative, no prior convictions, limited damages) his own lawyer wrote that he believed that even had he been convicted, he would have landed in the sentencing levels where probation would have been allowed.

It was the felony and the limits on his future in politics that drove a lot of it.

Some jail time wouldn't have been enough. I think he would have done that. Maybe while in there, bad things might have happened.

But, it was obvious to me Schwartz understood code, people, how to organize and advocacy. He wanted to build a body of people and power and do some things.

To him, a felony conviction undermines all of that, and he saw it as useless, himself useless.

A felony conviction does not appear to have set Robert Morris too far back in life, or prevented him from changing the world.

Yes. It is not the end of the world. And we can see that. Options, Like having it expunged exist too.

That Aaron let it get into his head and could not or would not seek help, nor really understanding so many people would have his back is tragic.

You're allowed to feel anger and disappointment over suicide. But for the most part, victims of suicide are succumbing to a disease; they aren't failing to live up to a standard.

I might have sympathized with Atwood's comment before watching the doc, but the film goes into the misery Swartz felt even on the first day of working in the Conde Nast office. He literally barred himself in a bathroom stall and wept. For a unique character like Swartz, the disempowerment of the prison system must have literally seemed a living nightmare.

Surely he knew prison would be a likely outcome of his actions? If he was not prepared to do jail time (like hundreds of other hackers and activists had done without a whimper), then perhaps he should have recalculated what he was doing.

For someone so intelligent, it seems he didn't fully understand the implications of his own actions, which is puzzling on several different levels.

While his suicide was a tragedy, it was completely avoidable.

Suicidal depression can be intractable, and we should be careful about assertions of how avoidable any given suicide is. This is a motherfucker of a group of diseases we're talking about.

Easy to say for someone sitting at the sidelines.

Yeah, sure, and Atwood has done what exactly to further our causes and rights?

Seriously, that article is a bunch of self-indulgent bullshit and Atwood cashing in on the suffering and suicide of an otherwise decent person.

EDIT:

Thanks for the downvotes.

Again, from the Atwood article:

"Play other, better moves – and consider your long game."

With the charges he was facing, there wasn't a long-term game. According to wikipedia, was looking at a total of 35 years in prison and $1M in fines. There is no long game there other than trying to invest in cigarettes and bars of soap and pocket radios. There are no better moves.

"I say this not as a person who wishes to judge Aaron Swartz."

Every time I read something like this, there's always an unstated "...but I totally am and will!".

The whole thing is kinda victim-blamey.

I agree, what a terrible and childish thing for Atwood to write. Whenever he's strayed from restating others' programming aphorisms, I've found that I feel less for having read his essays.

The internet's own boy? Where was the internet when he needed them? "He's rich - he made reddit". He never said he was strong. He was an american who naively still believed in its ideals. Fk him right? I wonder how long you guys would last without your internet connection? "He was brilliant and weird, oh it was depression, he made a terrible mistake". Nothing to do with the overbearing jackbooted hypocrites intent on payback charging him with illegal wiretapping whilst all the while doing exactly that to him and other activists! It takes some cynicism to square that. Almost as cynical as that shill Atwood.

Downvote me to Hell you bastards.

Depression clouds one's judgement. "Knowing better" means nothing in that context. The above quote is entirely lacking of empathy, and in understanding of human nature.

That this tone-deaf quote is the top post on an article about such a delicate subject says a lot about HN's community.

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