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Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

My wife and I live in Baltimore, in Mt. Vernon. We were having dinner the other night in Bolton Hill (a quiet residential area), and four guys ran by the restaurant and tried to throw a chair through the window (chairs turned out to be heavier than they thought). People vandalized the Rite-Aid a few blocks from our apartment, and set fire to a building we could see out our window.

Being from Bangladesh I'm not worried (what's happening in Baltimore happens in Dhaka every other month). But it's a reminder of how fragile the social order is and how close we always are to its collapse.

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> But it's a reminder of how fragile the social order is and how close we always are to its collapse.

It makes me wonder if "civilization" really exists, or if we really are just small groups of self-centered "tribes" with sets of overlapping goals...until they aren't.

Fiction writers have made extensive use of this tenuous balance as a plot point. "Under the Dome" by Stephen King comes immediately to mind as one recent example. Once the "boundary" goes up, the town's social order falls apart surprisingly fast (within days, even though power, water, food, and services are still there).

>if we really are just small groups of self-centered "tribes" with sets of overlapping goals...until they aren't.

Look at criminals, especially those who violate moral standards we hold as sacred. Each of us is only a good citizen as long as our goals align, though those goals can be more complex than they first appear (such as altruism).

That's a good point. I had been thinking about the "positive" outcomes of those overlapping concerns but you are right to point out that social mores are a very grey area.

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Edit: The original was deleted so I'm removing mine.

Why do many countries with cold climate didn't have these issues while many countries with hot climate tend to do?

Why do countries which didn't have unsafe streets now do after immigration?

Probably because there aren't enough people in Greenland to get a good riot going. Shakespeare wrote about riots in England--some of them, to be sure, targeted against Germans. Scotland has had its riots, Berlin has had some. I could mention the Boston Tea Party, but let's face it, those Yankees were immigrants.

The Yankees were colonizers more than immigrants --England had dominion over the territory and people came over to colonize as English subjects. In other words they were 'domestic' immigrants as opposed to alien (Swiss, Spanish, etc.) immigrants.

Hmm, today I learned America has never had a riot before.

Although I seem to distinctly remember my city of Philadelphia rioting pretty good after the Philadelphia Phillies won the World Series...

Your sarcasm is misplaced.

In fact, America has seen a lot of protests and riots, for example in Brazil and Mexico.

Or in, say, New Hampshire, like a year ago.

I find your relaxed attitude quite perplexing. Only one moment of chance, madness, and anguish may have shattered your life. Shouldn't you be outraged at the fragility of your social order?

I'm sorry, but you're American. I've read your insightful, articulate comments. You were educated here, you live here, and you contribute to this society. You should be indignant that your conception of your place in America is framed by some past life. First, it is dishonest. You do not live and survive in Dhaka. And second, to me at least, it is an indication of your internalized acceptance of non-American-ness.

This is a problem of America. It is a problem for blacks, it is a problem for the poor, it is a problem for the immigrant, it is a problem for the non-sexually normative, it is a problem for the incarcerated, the list just goes on and on. Yet somehow it is totally un-American to recognize this as a problem. Perhaps it is the very definition of American-ness.

I am a techie. Today, I loved the discussion of Linus on endianness, and poor userland. I can't help but wonder what a gift it is to have him in America, but also wonder if he has fears about the future of the country his children will embrace fully as their own.

My wishes for the safety of you, your wife, and your city.

I'm not relaxed because I think it's someone else's problem. I'm unsurprised because I recognize through past experience that violent rioting is part of the human experience, always closer to the surface than we would hope. But thank you for the good wishes.

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