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Comment by spectre | Hacker News Reader

In New Zealand and Australia, the landings at Gallipoli are commemorated with a national holiday (ANZAC day, 25 April). I've always found it ironic that what is probably our most important holiday is a commemoration of one of Britain's greatest blunders.

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The meaning of the holiday is not so clear cut. In general its merely honouring the armed services, and remembering the fallen.

To others it straddles the line between anti and pro war (some decrying the glorification of pointless losses, others emphasising understanding those losses should help prevent them occurring again).

>emphasising understanding those losses should help prevent them occurring again

Here is something that always puzzled me. In WWII they sent almost all their troops to fight again in Europe (and North Africa) for a Britain led by Churchill. This time, however, they had good reason not to and should have instead be fighting the Japanese in the Pacific which was a real threat to them.

If it weren't for ANZAC they would have sent all their troops to Europe again, leaving none to fight the Japanese in Papua New Guinea.

First defeat of Japanese troops in the Pacific was by Australian troops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Milne_Bay

It's ironic your username is 'spectre', because that's exactly what Gallipoli and the ANZAC legend casts over modern Australia. Don't take my word for it, read James Brown's "Anzac's Long Shadow" to see how the mythologising of one tiny theatre of war continues to shape our country: http://www.blackincbooks.com/books/anzacs-long-shadow

I prefer commemorating the endurance of imperial stupidity to glorifying victories. In that respect I think Australia and New Zealand get it right.

Lest we forget.

As a nation born from the labour of convicts and the slaughter of aboriginals, we're pretty consistently a result of Britain's blunders! Criminals and colonialism!

Canada day doesn't conmomerate Ypres, but Canadians are still quite proud that we were cannon fodder for the British.

I guess those celebrating are those who weren't left behind.

Not really. We're far more proud of the Battle of Vimy, which we actually won.

Just a few weeks ago Vimy Ridge Day popped up in my calendar as a Canadian holiday - I asked around and although everybody knew of Vimy Ridge nobody in my group of contacts realized it was an 'official day'. This was in Toronto.

Likely due to the day not being a recognized holiday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimy_Ridge_Day

Sure, we're more proud of a victory. But Gallipoli (the topic) was a loss where the Brits used colonists as cannon fodder.

Ypres, then, fits rather nicely. Including the couple of pages in grade 10 history class about how nobly we bled.

A war were neither side had any redeeming quality.

Interestingly, just found out the Australians were at Ypres as well alongside Canadians (and, in many of the battles, along with many other colonial troops: India, New Zealand, and South Africa).

Just a random fact.

ANZAC day is a commemoration to those that died. Don't confuse commemoration with a party/celebratory sense, the event is usually pretty stern.

Well it was. It's been hijacked by patriots and nationalists over the last 30-40 years. It's also been propaganised through a national school curriculum for the last 20 years. It's at the point where criticism of anything to do with ANZAC Day is treated with contempt and outrage.

I've never been in the armed forces and I don't agree with war, but I think Anzac Day is the most important public holiday.

At every dawn service I'm overwhelmed by the number of young families who clearly have suffered their own loss.

For me Anzac day isn't even remotely about nationalism or patriotism, it's about love, families, bravery, sadness.

I don't think you need to criticise Anzac Day, you just need to see it from the personal perspective of those people who are remembering lost friends and loved ones.

> For me Anzac day isn't even remotely about nationalism or patriotism, it's about love, families, bravery, sadness.

That what ANZAC day should be about. It should be about the rememberance of the family thinking about their sons, brothers, fathers on the front line.

I am an Australian living in Germany. Every year when ANZAC day comes around, I also try to imagine how the local German families felt when their love ones go to war. In general, the people from the war generation that attended the war were brainwashed into action. For the Germans who can see through the hatred, they are just humans.

As an Australian living in the UK I had always assumed that all countries had a day of remembrance for the sacrifices, futility and horrors of war.

I was quite surprised when a German colleague saw the wearing of red poppies around November 11 as unusual and something he could not grok.

I'm well aware of the nature of, and reason for the ANZAC day commemorations. The irony was that an event that served to define New Zealand and Australia's national identities, is also one of British Empires greatest failures.

I don't think that it's ironic that Gallipoli and WW1 in general is what led to Australia and New Zealand starting to view themselves as distinct from the "Home Country" - our experiences in WW1 made it very clear that England didn't consider us colonials to be English, even if we still did at the time.

It's estimated that between 1/4 and a 1/3 of the ANZACs were born in the "Mother Country", so their rejection as being not-British was probably a contributing factor to the passing of the Nationality Act of 1920.

Yet, when WWII came around... (see my other reply on this thread)

Define our identities? There's hardly anyone (relatively speaking, by comparison to say the US's independence day) outside of Australia/New Zealand that even know about Galipoli.

I think you're confusing external identity (how other countries see us) with national identity (how we see ourselves). Gallipoli was hugely influential in defining how New Zealanders and Australians thought of themselves and their nation. It was our coming of age, the moment when we started to see ourselves as nations rather than colonies.

(Of course, that description is a little bit exaggerated: I'm sure reality was much fuzzier and messier. But that just proves the point that Gallipoli has become our national myth. It defines us now, even if it didn't really define us then.)

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