Hacker News Reader

Comment by didibus | Hacker News Reader

The army is the reason young men go to war. That's what I infer from your comment at least.

What other institution is so organized, so marketed, so respected, as the army?

What other institution will take you in and dedicate the same level of attention and money in guiding you?

What other institution does all the above with as low of a barrier to entry?

To some extent, the army provides the same benefit as a cult. They are there to fill your void when you feel it most. Guiding you to a path of adventure, excitement, and mostly, fulfillment.

View on HN

Luckily in most other developed western countries it carries no prestige to be part of the army outside of certain low income / right wing / uneducated circles. To the point where the majority of university students would never consider dating someone who went to the army. While there was still conscription, if you didn't chose to do alternative civil service, you were in the minority and considered suspect.

To the point where the majority of university students would never consider dating someone who went to the army

But they would never consider dating street sweepers or shop workers or manual labourers either, or anyone else they see as beneath their social status as "university students", despite relying on those people every single day of their lives. It's pure class snobbery, and this is why many people hold "students" in contempt.

Fortunately most grow out of it when they graduate.

now sir, you got this one wrong. for intellectually based people (let's assume most college people are), dating with somebody you don't have that much to say is meaningless and frustrating experience. same goes for (most) guys too.

The military attracts plenty of geniuses just like any other large organization. Simply by not admitting the least capable the Army ends up significantly higher IQ than the average high school. Meanwhile 39% of 18- to 24-year-olds and 65.9 of those who graduate high school were enrolled in college, so it's not all that selective.

PS: Yes, this means that large numbers of smart people don't think the way you do.

If that is the point the OP is trying to make, then why single out the military? And all that nonsense about the "right wing" (clue: militarism is equally distributed throughout the political spectrum).

Well I'm speaking of the political spectrum in the German army "http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article109241172/Welt.... According to the linked article 70% are close to the CDU, which can be considered right wing, 14 % have extreme right views. I'm pretty sure similar things could be said about other armies in Europe.

Since the American political spectrum is skewed so far to the right, that it's ridiculous it might be true that American soldiers have views more representative of the population.

I'm not really sure what this has to do with street sweepers, shop workers, manual labourers, or military personnel? Would you care to elaborate?

Saying this applies to most developed countries is a big claim. My own personal experience in the few European countries is the opposite, that being in the military was great for picking up girls.

Obviously your own experience differs, but you must be careful in applying that to an entire continent. Not to mention the absurdity of university students looking down on soldiers, many (almost all in my unit) of whom will hold degrees themselves.

> My own personal experience in the few European countries is the opposite, that being in the military was great for picking up girls.

As the popular proverb in Poland goes, "za mundurem panny sznurem" - "girls queue up behind an uniform[ed guy; follow him]".

I wouldn't say that about the UK - perhaps because military leadership has traditionally been so closely aligned with our social classes (i.e. if you are posh and go to a public school then you are officer material).

A lot of private (what we call "public") schools have Army/Air-Force cadet groups which are supported by the real armed forces and often have ex-forces staff working in the school.

There is a good chance my view is heavily biased, obviously at one point in every European country the military was held in high regard, regardless of class. My perception is that at least in Germany being an officer is no longer something most young people would aspire to or even consider as a career path. Nor is volunteering for the army considered a particularly attractive option. Obviously other countries might have larger success in indoctrinating the young, US propaganda and Hollywood certainly do a good job at glorifying their military.

That's not true.

There are actually interesting parallels to Silicon Valley and startups for techies. It is "the place to be", "the place to prove yourself". The cosy safety net of corporate life leaves you with the naggging feeling that you're not quite as good as someone "hacking" at the startup.

The notion isn't new, Shakespeare as usual sums it up:

And gentlemen in England now-a-bed Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.

Not being a native speaker, I can't find a handle on this quote. Can anyone please explain in simpler words what Shakespeare meant?

> And gentlemen in England now-a-bed Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.

It's from Shakespeare's Henry V and it's part of the speech given by the titular King to his troops just before the Battle of Agincourt - which fell on St. Crispin's day. The Battle of Agincourt became a major English victory against the French during the Hundred-Year War and led to Henry V being recognized as Heir Apparent to the French crown, and his son, Henry VI, claiming the title of King of France as well being King of England.

In simpler terms the quote is saying that the glory gained by fighting in the battle alongside their King will be so great that any man who could fight who was not there will be jealous and will think of themselves as lesser men when in the company of those who fought.

The whole speech is here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Crispin%27s_Day_Speech - and well worth reading.

"When you tell other men that you were at this battle, everyone will think you are cool, wish they had been here too and question their own manhood!"

people currently sleeping in England Shall think they were cursed by not being here And feel inferior, when anyone speaks that fought on St Crispin's Day.

Is that of any help?

(some context) This was part of a motivational speech by Henry V, given before the Battle of Agincourt, which took place on St Crispins Day.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com