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Comment by sbjustin | Hacker News Reader

I'd go work somewhere else and here is why:

You can learn anywhere, why work with a bunch of people who are not going to build you up and encourage you to improve yourself and by extension, the team/project. What are you really getting from these guys if it's "every man for himself" anyways?

1. Forget that, be confident. Just focus on improving yourself and on things that can make you better at your job.

2. No. I expect my junior guys to learn on their own but am always willing to step in and provide guidance.

3. There can be some rough people in IT. If they're rotten they are probably less confident than you think they are, probably more so than you, but don't want you to realize it.

Lastly, I can tell you from experience, if you don't think it's worth it, it's not. There are fun jobs out there, go and get one.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. There is nothing to be gained from elitist attitudes. Sounds to me like they want to hoard their own job security.

On top of all that, the "every man for themselves" mentality is a way to make sure that developers look out for themselves instead of the company as a whole. This is of no benefit to the company, and the leadership should recognize this and act accordingly.

What good can come from behavior that ensures other teammates don't improve at the rates they should be?

I heard a quote recently:

"What if we teach them everything and they leave?" "What if we don't, and they stay?"

Awesome quote! I'll definitely being using that in the future.

The rule of "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" applies just as much in work environments, and if you're working with a bunch of toxic/antisocial/whatever people it's bad all around - the company loses good people who don't want to put up with the toxic attitudes, coworkers don't benefit from working with the "experts," and of course the downside for the toxic folks: "Oh, yeah, I worked with him 2 companies ago. If you can put up with the prickish behavior he might do good things, but don't put him on my team."

I agree with all that. I'd also add that I think the desire to get hired and be mentored is a common mistake. Coworkers don't have time to sit down and teach you 1on1. But what they do have time for is helping a coworker out if they are struggling on something. No they won't do your job for you but if theres something you don't understand ask for help. If you have to ask twice you didn't take good notes. Not asking more than once may seem insignificant, but people will notice that you don't pester them with the same questions over and over. They may know that you are not as experienced as they are but they will know you are on the right track and competent. Nobody learns everything overnight. You only get out what you put in. Lastly, if you don't like your coworkers, find a company with people you can work with.

I seem to remember being pretty overwhelmed by the whole system as a junior. A decent explanation helps. And documentation.

I agree, I think the environment sounds toxic.

This is a natural response.

But isn't this a spiral down? and impact your confidence with signs of quitter?

Say OP is in a startup currently , this downgrade will mean a jump to a big MNC to a services offering to a outsourcing company. The issue at hand has to be handled at some point right?

You would be surprised at how difficult it is in any company (large or small) to make a change on culture. That is completely driven top-down, and normally the "spiral" you speak of is more inline with a individual contributor (non-manager) trying to "change" the culture, even if it seems positive to the individual, in an even more toxic relationship.

"Signs of a quitter" should never be used as an excuse to continue with a toxic company. You should also not be surprised at working 70-80 hours a week, going "above and beyond" then being let go for a Sr. management bonus :)

Loyalty is pretty illusive now days on the side of companies it seems. It is still an employers market, despite the "we can't find talent" laments.

OP's not in a startup company; he said he was in a quite desirable software company.

On 2, I feel like I know enough to get by, but can't really level up and do larger stuff. I make features and fix bugs and most of the time they stick (who knows down the road though!), but I'm in a similar situation as OP but feel like my language knowledge is just behind and my job doesn't feel like a source of learning. Is this ultimately my responsibility or do I just need a mentor to break through?

Having been a sw PM for 20yrs I think self-awareness and willingness to explain highlight those that are truly brilliant. They recognize their abilities and become accustomed to explaining their ideas. Your awareness of your own limitations is credit to your intelligence IMO. Others who get frustrated when having to explain or posture do so from posturing or insecurity. Being in a new position requires computation of many more inputs than a old timer too, slowing down thought by an order of magnitude. Who knows, you may be the smartest dude in the room. Good luck!

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