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Comment by paolomaffei | Hacker News Reader

"We modern smart men have figured a way to have trippy experiences without puking and going into an uncomfortable jungle with this funny superstitious shamans, we are the best!" As if doing a hit of DMT was nearly the same thing as a proper Ayahuasca ceremony done with a shaman coming from a 10.000 years lineage. Sigh.

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Of course it's not the same. For one thing there is a lot less bullshit involved in simply smoking DMT. Seriously though, there are a lot of factors involved but I'm sure going into the jungle to drink ayahuasca under supervision of some self-proclaimed shaman isn't the only reasonable or effective way to have your spiritual experience with DMT.

Yeah, lets listen to superstitious people!

Why appeal to the age of an authority? If there's anything measurably beneficial about Ayahuasca I'm certain it can be extracted into a precisely dosed pharmaceutical.

I doubt that anyone who has actually tried ayahuasca (or a similarly potent hallucinogen) both with a shaman and without would agree with you. Do you have any citations to back up this opinion?

The danger of your opinion is that it precludes research into things like drumming and chanting. Humans have been using rhythm to build a sense of community for thousands of years. Could there be something here for science? Could we learn how to help therapists and patients bond much faster?

I don't know these answers. Do you?

Oh interesting, I hadn't thought of this from a therapy point of view. Any time you mix spirituality and treatment my mind goes immediately to scam, which is what I assumed this was.

Any time there is treatment, there is spirituality. It's just that western medical approaches pretend there is none, whilst a lot of other approaches pretend there is more than there is.

The New Yorker wrote a good piece on the use mushrooms and hallucinogens (which are similar to ayahuasca) having the ability to improve mental illness, depression, addiction, etc. They are testing this is troopers who return from battle http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment

It doesn't sound like your definition of spirituality and my definition match at all. IMO, spirituality is understanding the significance of you, all of us, and the universe; it's empowerment of self, and understanding that we're all essentially "gods", able to change reality as long as we put our mind, and actions to it.

The shaman by him/herself won't do anything. Neither would the Ayahuasca on it's own. It's having the right combination of both (setting), and your intention (set) that leads to an amazing experience.

The funny thing is, the experience itself is not the most important thing.. it's what you do after the ceremony with your life, and how you change your lifestyle to make you happy.

Obviously, if the shaman isn't giving you the real tea, mixes stuff in, doesn't take care of you, and such, I'd call it a straight up scam.

> Yeah, lets listen to superstitious people!

If you like, you can think of it as a kind of placebo effect. Which, you may be able to imagine, can get really strong under the influence of psychedelics.

Disclaimer: I've never used Ayahuasca, but I did organise a few shroom trips, where I paid a lot of attention to the "set & setting". Compared to other times, it makes a lot of difference.

Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_and_setting

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