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Comment by aceperry | Hacker News Reader

I must say, I'm very impressed with all of the open source moves that MS has done lately. I wonder if that will drive more adoption of C# and cause Oracle to open up Java. I'm not a fan of C# because it's basically only used on windows systems, despite xamarin and et al.

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I like both eco-systems a lot, however Java is currently more open than .NET, specially if you look around for available certified JVMs.

In this particular case, i'd prefer Windows above Oracle (Java) anytime, considering they deliver malware with their Java Setup...

Edit: Some people give a link to an alterantive download without malware... You know 99% of all Java downloads don't know that, do you?

There isn't any malware when downloading from

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/inde...

Or when packaging the Java application with the runtime

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/tools/windows...

Or using one of the commercial JVMs that compile Java to native code

Or just bothering to read the dialog when installing it from Java.com.

While it is true the bundling shouldn't exist in the first place, any knowledgeable Java developer knows how to get applications deployed without it being an issue.

Actually my biggest problem with Java is Google dragging its feets and making the Android fragmentation a return of the J2ME headaches. Sun and Oracle were right all along.

My son gets the Ask crapware whenever he updates Java to play MineCraft on his computer. He's a child, not a Java Developer. He just wants to play MineCraft and Java is in his way and the Crapware loads by opt out.

There is a new installer available for windows version of Minecraft which has a private version of JRE and does not require standard system-wide version of Java installed.

https://minecraft.net/download

Minecraft for Windows Download and run Minecraft.msi. This will install Minecraft and create a shortcut in your start menu. If you'd like a version without an installer, you may use Minecraft.exe instead. You do not need Java installed to run either of these.

You might see it differently, but I never let kids update software on their own.

If you are always holding their hands, they are going to be unknowing when they grow up.

Let them see for themselves why they shouldn't install the Java runtime and explain to them why it's bad.

My parents were very strict about me not using knives when I was growing up, and it took me 30 years to finally get mostly comfortable with using knives in the kitchen. Yes, I've never cut myself with a knife, but I also rarely cook as a result.

Sure, and that's a good idea. But I believe OP's point was the inclusion of the [crap|mal]ware in the first place, not what a reasonable response to it is.

That makes you a good parent. As would the converse.

Apparently, you can turn the crapware offer off.

https://www.java.com/en/download/faq/disable_offers.xml

My concern here isn't for myself. I tend to know how to avoid the malware. My concern is how they are treating the average downloader.

You can download installers without the malware from their technetwork: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/inde...

i just don't install programs that include malware. i can do without it. in all cases, i can get around it. i don't care enough to.

i use 0 programs made in java on my desktop/laptop. it makes sense on a server, it doesn't belong on the desktop, the malware is just another reason.

You're kidding, right? Where is the source code for java compiler and jvm stuff? Can you send a pull request? Can you see the commits? Can you see design meetings about the language? Java is not more open than .NET in any way.

> Where is the source code for java compiler and jvm stuff?

Here: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/

> Can you send a pull request?

You'd do that on the mailing list, until you become a contributer with direct access to the repo,http://openjdk.java.net/contribute/

> Can you see the commits?

Yes, in the above mentioned mercurial repos.

> Can you see design meetings about the language?

Java has developed in a somewhat collaborate/committee fashion which has been open to the public since before the JVM itself was open sourced. It is probably quite hard for random individuals to contribute directly to that, but yes - you can see what's going on it the JCP process, https://jcp.org/en/jsr/overview

Serious question -- is this not the source code page for the JVM? https://jdk8.java.net/java-se-8-ri/

Yeah, especially since you need to pay a regular fee to use Xamarin, and it's not libre software either.

If a free Xamarin came out I'd jump on the C# boat in a heartbeat, which I guess is what MS is trying to do with all this open sourcing (free software-ifying?).

> Yeah, especially since you need to pay a regular fee to use Xamarin

You can use Monodevelop[1] which is 100% FOSS. AFAIK Xamarin is just Monodevelop with some extra wrappers and custom libraries for cross-platform mobile-development. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If you're just making normal applications, libraries or web-solutions you don't need Xamarin.

[1] http://www.monodevelop.com/

I have used Xamarin Studio a lot in the past for free. It's the mobile stuff that costs extra. Now I lean a bit more toward Visual Studio as it is free for my purposes.

From my experience C# was pretty much following Scala down the functional road, and the syntax was quite similar. Maybe you should check out Scala.

Edit: I say "was" because I used to develop C# and had experience porting C# apps to Scala (so that we could run it on linux, lol).

Since most of the income of Oracle comes from Enterprise software, I doubt they will do what MS does in the near future.

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