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Comment by dash2 | Hacker News Reader

The argument is really compelling. There are good reasons to be suspicious when corporations want to go over the heads of national democratic legal systems.

That said, the basic idea of TTIP is a REALLY GOOD THING. It's not just about making it easier to trade across the Atlantic, which could give a huge fillip to both US and EU economies. It's also about the political results that will cement our relationship. Both the US and EU are facing rising powers which do not share our fundamental values. We will be stronger if we stand together. Binding our economies closer will help that happen.

Not wishing to close criticism down, but TTIP is too big an opportunity to be spoilt by the greed of some lobbyists - or by knee-jerk opposition. Fight over the details, not over the principle.

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Actually one of the main reasons I want TTIP not to happen is because I don't want any closer relationships with the USA. US foreign policy has been somewhere between awful, irresponsible and plain evil for the last couple of decades. Don't get me wrong, it is not unreflected anti-Americanism, I am German and hugely thankful for what the USA has done for Germany in the past, especially of course during and after World War II.

But that changed. I would love if we could distance ourselves from the USA for a multitude of things from spying over torturing to the offensive war against Iraq, to just name some obvious examples. If we as Europeans impose sanctions on Russia right now for their actions related to the Ukraine, we should have imposed sanction on the USA long ago.

But we can not because we are so dependent on the USA, especially when it comes to IT with most of the major players like Microsoft, Intel, Google, IBM and Apple being US companies. We would be screwed without them. Could we openly oppose the USA and still do business with them? Maybe. Do we want to find it out, test who gets hurt more? Not really.

In the same way the USA is doing business with regimes like Saudi Arabia we keep doing business with the USA. But I am convinced we should really avoid getting even more entangled with the USA wherever possible to not risk worsening our position further. At least until US politics gets sane again.

Do you realize how many military installations we have in your country?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_ins...

Of course, but I don't know what you want to say with that.

Well, you are proposing sanctions against a country which is largely responsible for defending your country. You don't see the disconnect? Further, you wrote about dependence on the U.S. with respect to IT, which seems to pale in comparison to the military dependence.

We fly drone strikes out of your country and you are worried about CPUs?

In which way is the USA defending Germany and against whom? Besides local businesses profiting from the presence of US soldiers people either don't care about these military bases or want to see them gone because of drone strikes from there or the opportunity to have spying equipment there. Getting rid of the US military bases would not really hurt anyone, losing access to US IT technology would hurt a lot.

I'm not really the person to argue with on this topic because I probably agree with you on most counts. Given the close ties our countries share, I just thought your original comment a bit odd.

Would you care to pin down what you perceived as odd? I would appreciate that, because it is obviously a highly controversial topic and I would like to know where I have to be more clear or precise or whatever to get my point across as objectively as possible.

What is the United States doing currently that deserves sanctions?

The NSA spying on Merkel (and other allied world leaders, but someone mentioned they're German in comment to this as well), off the top of my head?

Or for humanitarian reasons, same as we claim when we impose them elsewhere? Examples such as our continued use of torture both abroad and local (especially since solitary confinement is viewed as torture when it goes on longer than a few weeks), our continued life without parole imprisonment of non-violent offenders for miniscule crimes (3 strikes and you're out), our still imposing the death penalty, etc.

Or for our breaking international law in the various wars and attacks the US has undertaken without international backing? I mean, we're basically a rogue state in that regard, just, you know, big enough no one responds to it, same as Russia with the Crimea.

What exactly do you think it would take to deserve sanctions, if not those?

Guantanamo is still open, for one thing.

Ya I have to 2nd this one, why on earth would germany impose sanctions?

I did not necessarily mean exactly right now, but the Iraq war was obviously worth sanctions. Also distancing from the USA does not necessarily imply imposing sanction, but the US spying programs and the drone war are recent and current activities that make me want to get as far away from the USA as possible.

I would want to fight over the principle. And what the heck are our fundamental values? Snowden, guantanamo, gladio. Do you really think we are so much better? Instead of having this polarizing US VS THEM attitude you should travel more. You will see people are people everywhere and we all strive for life, liberty, peace and happiness.

How about harmonization instead of confrontation (Remember when that ever had a positive outcome?). How about global trade mechanics with a global currency not controlled by privately held banks and ever-corrupt governments of single nations.

The US appears to be a failed state to many Europeans, with many serious problems (just one example of which, being, a population which has been indoctrinated to paranoia and xenophobia of a great degree, which you demonstrate to a certain extent in your comment [1])

From my perspective the US and Russia look very similar. I'm guessing many US readers will find this implausible or shocking, but on paper, those two countries really are very similar, and have similar chronic problems.

Being dragged down into the mire of problems with the US is a nightmare many Europeans. We would prefer to distance ourselves as much as possible from the US.

[1] Few other dire problems (ie. Much worse than the global average) in the US I could mention. Wealth gap, terrible standard of education, public healthcare, contamination of your land and water from dirty mining oil fracking processes , prison industrial system with a huge % of your population in jail, huge defense spending and military industrial complex, spy and security agencies out of control

Syria is a failed state since it is in the middle of a civil war. The USA is not a failed state because the government still effectively governs. And from my perspective, many European countries appear to be more xenophobic than the USA. France's crazy anti-Muslim laws are a good example.

Yes, I was being a bit hyperbolic. But the US certainly fulfils some of the qualifications of a failed state according to the definition of the phrase on wikipidia anyway. For example.. 'Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions' - It appears that a lot of US policy is decided by private special interest groups, lobby groups and corporations and not by any sovereign or democratic process. 'Inability to provide public services' - Aforementioned lack of education, healthcare, adequate drinking water etc. for a large cohort of the population. 'Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community' - Arguable as the US has acted unilaterally, breaking international laws during the invasion of iraq for example. The respected US commentator Noam Chomsky makes the point that the US is becoming more and more like a failed state in book 'failed states'

hmm, have you been to the usa? adequate drinking water? This isn't mexico :)

Every country has problem, money in politics is a problem everywhere. I would say Europe and the USA are pretty equal in every regard, some have some pros over here, some cons over here. It would be better if everyone could try learning from each other.

The main point of the article to me was that judges in those matters will not elected but simply paid, and yet their decisions will affect nations.

This is a big detail.

The only way to solve those issue will be to create an international democratic judiciary institution, with elected members. But then, knowing that a wide majority of the worldwide population doesn't live under a true democratic regime, those kind of institution are doomed to repeat the UN fiasco.

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