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Comment by SandB0x | Hacker News Reader

The cost of living in London is insane and it is a really interesting thought experiment. A lot of my friends are moving out of the city and I can't see myself staying here more than another year or two.

But for some context, West Hampstead is a fairly nice suburb on three different train and tube lines.

The rent for a one-bed flat is high as they are bid up by couples who are both earning. You are at a big disadvantage looking on your own. In my experience there is not much difference between prices for a one or two bed flat.

I think a big problem is the price of national rail transport into London from the commuter belt. It can easily cost £4,000 a year for a season ticket, wiping out most of the saving on rent or mortgage payments compared to living in the city.

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I commuted between London and Berlin for a decent amount of time, and I certainly remember having more money then compared to now when I live in London fulltime.

How did you manage this? Was this daily? If not, where were you sleeping when you were in London? Where were you flying to, and how were you getting into central London? I'm really interested in commuting to London from other countries but it seems impractical and expensive. There seem to be a lot of people talking about how in theory it's cheaper, but no one is doing it other than weekly commutes, which requires a place to stay in the first place.

How can rail transport be that expensive? (I'm genuinely asking)

You'd be even more incredulous if you had to ride on a London bound commuter train every morning. If you're lucky you'll get to stand in a space large enough that you don't have to stick your head in someone's armpit. If you're incredibly lucky, or get on at one of the first stops on the line, you might even get a seat.

London Underground standard 'crush loads' are 4 people per square meter of floor space for the entire floor area of the train carriage.

I'm really not sure that's a fact I wanted to know.

Because the rail tracks were laid down a loooong time ago, and are surrounded on all sides by expensive property. This means limited capacity, ageing infrastructure, and unceasingly increasing demand.

I'm in the ~£4k* a year bracket. The train takes about ~40 minutes to get to London, which is pretty good. You won't get a seat though, so that's 40 minute standing packed in like cattle on a train service that's often late.

Of course, network rail, the line operator, kicks back money for lateness but the strange rules of your franchise like paying out only on overall lateness and not considering a train that's too full for you to get on as late means they keep 90% of that back for themselves.

For most folks that's only part one of your commute, because few of us actually work where we get into the city. Typically this means getting on the underground for another 30 minutes, this time cattle is being a bit polite.

* Actually, the £4000 is what I would pay if I paid for a yearly ticket. Since I don't always work in London, I get month tickets. These cost £400 a month.

Because, even at that price, the trains are still standing-room only on peak.

From a quick calculation my £4000 season ticket works out about £0.25/mile.

Because UK uses a stupid system of surge pricing for their trains. Rather than a flat rate for a journey, you will pay more the closer it is to the departure and the busier the route is. So even if you buy a ticket 6 months in advance, a Monday morning ticket to London is going to cost you 100 pounds+, depending where you are travelling from.

Because the market will bear it. People have jobs in London, but can't afford to live there. Driving usually isn't an option either because parking prices and London traffic are prohibitive. Ergo the train companies can charge basically whatever they like and people have to put up with it.

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