Comment by nnain | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nnain | Hacker News Reader

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For a decade until 2008-09, large majority of the economists weren't able to predict how this is going to bite. The southern states were having a ball as they carelessly kept increasing the labour charges and enjoyed a comparatively higher valuation at the cost of nations that have a more professional workforce. I get eerie whenever a country's mood and economy is suddenly booming for no seeming important reason other than the play on financial instruments.

Anyway, back to the point. Spain, Italy have a lot of fine craftsmen - remember Zara, Ferrari and Lamborghini! But the Northerners are pretty professional at their work - BMW, Volvo, Nokia! It will take long for the mindset in the southern states to change from casual to the one of performance.

As the pressure mounts, a lot of young people will start to gravitate towards greener pastures in other countries - it's easy for people from member states to move to a new country, thus depriving these countries of young workers. It'll turn out to be a pretty painful situation them, a brain/workforce drain, which is the last thing they want right now.

The EU and Euro currency brings both good and bad. The good that I see is the easy exchange of money, travel and work options. The bad is that European people aren't a single stock, they don't like to be compared to each other, or to be put on similar benchmarks. It was smart move by Switzerland and UK to stay out of the Euro currency. The common currency puts a pressure on everyone to be equal. And that, is not going to happen. This will be a challenge EU will face for a very long time to come, and maybe there's no good answer.

a lot of young people will start to gravitate towards greener pastures

This is already happening. The coffee shops, kiosks and warehouses in Denmark where I'm from are packed with economical refugees from Southern Europe.

The sad part is that the ones that leave are probably the most driven ones, and thus the ones the southern countries need in the future.

Well if the whole thing is a union, what does it matter? Americans don't stress about the smartest Floridians heading to New York for work.

And there's the problem... you're either a union or you're not. Can't pick and choose which elements of union and sovereignty you want.

Any further EU integration, of the kind necessary to make it a functioning union will likely require referendums in many countries. More than that it will realistically signify the death knell of what was traditionally the nation states of europe. The public mood is not there for those to pass in many countries

> The public mood is not there for those to pass in many countries

It will be once the next European war is over.

America wasn't as unified as it is now until after the Civil War and the subsequent passage of Constitutional amendments to fully and finally not only abolish slavery, but to make sure freed blacks would be full citizens, despite what the states formerly in a state of rebellion thought about it.

However the European monetary union isn't a union like you see in the US or other huge countries. In the US we have probably 100-200 billion a year in transfer payments. Automatic stabilizers like social security and unemployment insurance, etc. And then we have a true central banking system Bank in Florida goes under, it's not Florida's problem it's the Federal Reserves problem.

If a state isn't able to use currency exchange rates to control in flow and out flow of money then you need these types of things to keep the system stable. Europe doesn't.

So you are indeed right about not being able to pick and choose. You can't take control of a counties currency away from them without guaranteeing that the central bank and government will have their back economically.

These are transitionary days, the lines are being blurred. I would say that the bracket of folks who talk about these issues are not the same as those doing something about it - its far easier for a middle-aged, entrenched worker to get on the Internet and complain about these issues than it is to see the guys who are crossing borders and working in a new culture to break down the typically insular nature of contemporary European life. You can see this internationalization factor at very specific strata - however, as usual, the squeaky wheel gets the grease ..

So your country is full of a lot of new smart, amicable and creative people now easing the ways to South-american markets to you. Well done, Denmark!

I remember when we have here very nice, modest and that can only be called as "elegant" people from Ecuador for example. Not being ironic at all. Hard workers, very responsible and good people.

> The sad part is that the ones that leave are probably the most driven ones, and thus the ones the southern countries need in the future.

The current way of doing things by the euro-kings in Europe will most probably lead to a big chunk of land and economy in many southern european countries ending in the hands and future property of Russia, China or Saudi Arabia I guess... they could easily atract workers as needed. Don' worry by this.

>The bad is that European people aren't a single stock, they don't like to be compared to each other, or to be put on similar benchmarks

This needs to change, and it will happen - in spite of statements to the contrary - because young people all over Europe are moving to other countries, the so-called 'greener pastures' - and thus the integration and cultural osmosis is in process. Spanish workers moving to Germany are becoming less Spanish; Romanians moving to Austria, less Romanian. This is a good thing, and will - over time spans of 5..10 years - result in the badly needed cross-pollination. Its very clear in Europe that cultural mores and disciplines which result in prejudice and exclusion need to be abandoned - I see precisely this happening at the youth level, and less so in the middle-age bracket - but such is life.

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