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Comment by indlebe | Hacker News Reader

>get used to being treated the same way.

Can you elaborate on this? IMHO women should be treated equally when it makes moral sense. I.e. women's bathrooms need to be larger because of the various things they need to do in there, not just societal norm things but things like changing tampons, pads.

The menstrual cycle also affects productivity and is essentially a reoccurring medical issue that needs regular treatment.

As for the greater issue being discussed about the male centric nature of hackerspaces and hacker houses, alot of this has to do with proven social psychology facts about how the average man reacts to women that don't fit societal stereotypes. Lots of papers on that.

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I believe that we could also write papers about how average the woman reacts to men that don't fit societal stereotypes. This is not a women's issue at all and I don't see the relevance of it in this discussion.

The whole point is the original claim that men don't know how to act around women, as if there was some special way of dealing with women that makes them inherently different from men in a way that could go against the expectations of modern gender equality politics.

The relevance is that men currently dominate the hackerspace "scene". How men react to women that don't fit societal norms would tend to dictate how women in tech are going to be treated.

>The whole point is the original claim that men don't know how to act around women, as if there was some special way of dealing with women that makes them inherently different from men in a way that could go against the expectations of modern gender equality politics.

This is a general statement, there are deviations of course: Men tend to (often aggressively) challenge each others ideas, building off of the criticism. Women prefer a more nurturing approach. Hell, I would prefer a more nurturing approach :)

Why do separate bathrooms need to be a thing? Many/most homes don't bother.

I don't think cleanliness is the biggest issue when it comes to shared bathrooms since both men and women can be clean or messy. As a woman I would be most concerned about periods. Some women try to hide when they are on their period for various reasons. If you are sharing a bathroom either everybody will know you are on your period (and the guys would have to be okay with tampons and such) or you would have to hide all of your feminine products which would be annoying.

I think all of these reasons are pretty weak. What I do know is that it creates a uniquely horrible situation for people who are transgender/transitioning. I admit that periods are the closest thing to a biological reason to have differences in bathroom facilities, but mostly I think that it's a holdover of 19th century sexism.

Men tend to take care of their home bathrooms (when sharing it with a SO) a bit better than a public restroom.

Do you get out much? Honestly as a guy I'd never want to sit down in a men's public restroom (unless it is an extremely well kept place).

Women's public restrooms are almost always much worse than men's- this is something that has been echoed by every janitor I've ever talked to and accurately reflects my own experiences as well.

That's not to say any public restrooms are generally good, but the idea that women are somehow cleaner than men really needs to die.

That's weird, all the janitors I know have said its true that women's bathrooms are better kept than men's, and my own experience and friends anecdotes also reflects that. Perhaps there's a demographic aspect to it.

That's an interesting thought- I've primarily talked to people living in the US midwest who dealt with bathrooms used primarily by lower to middle class individuals. Perhaps more upscale locations force a higher standard?

The assumption I've always been given is that women are more prone to hovering (germs!) along with the obvious biological differences that allow for more..erm...variety in terms of mess making. Seemed a sensible enough explanation to me, but it's very possible that there's more to it.

My daughter is a student at a top-20 college in the country and shares the bathroom with 3 other girls. They are all as messy (if not more) than my son's male roommates (also in college).

Another note, I remember reading somewhere that the amount of bacteria found in bathrooms is much higher in ladies-rooms than mensrooms. May or may not be the result of overall messiness, though :-)

Interesting - I was thinking of public bathrooms, I'm not really familiar with any single-sex private bathrooms, where generally I'd assume women would have a lot more 'stuff' in general so would tend to be messier. You are probably referring to this paper[http://wc.arizona.edu/papers/90/156/07_1_m.html], which seems to be the only study ever done (and I can't find the actual paper, just people citing it). Says that women's bathrooms are tidier and smell nicer but have more germs, possibly because they touch more surfaces, they bring in children who are obviously little germ bombs, and they just use them more often (and the children angle would probably affect traffic numbers too).

Most men still pee standing up. That's pretty messy.

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