Comment by SEJeff | Hacker News Reader

Comment by SEJeff | Hacker News Reader

So just like with computer security, I'm a fan of both passive and active security for my home.

Their website is straight out of 1990, but Burglargard is a bullet resistant effectively smash-proof invisible coating that can be applied to all windows in your home: http://www.burglargard.com

The nice thing about it is that if you have them install it, it comes with a lifetime no yellow, no peel, full replacement warranty. If you opt to install it yourself, it is much cheaper (Approximately $1 per sq foot), but no warranty, so not as useful.

Also, make sure to get 6" or longer screws to put into external door frames. It ensures the frame is anchored to studs and makes ripping it out via a typical kick the door in attack much more difficult. Stuff like the haven lock (http://www.havenlock.com) also really helps make it more difficult to kick in the door.

Note that these things make a break-in demonstrably more difficult, but they won't prevent it. I see an alarm system as a more passive security device, much like an intrusion detection system. "Hey someone broke in" means someone still broke in. I'm more of a fan of trying to make the act of breaking in in addition to ensuring I have a decent idea if someone does.

Defense in depth doesn't just apply to computers, it is a way of thinking :)

Burglargard looks pretty cool. But I'd definitely have to re-evaluate fire exits before I installed, the last thing I'd want is for the entire family to burn to death because I was trying to save a few thousand dollars in property which is insured and replaceable.

Door frames and window frames are a common source of intrusion, but if your frames are made out of wood then I don't know if the 6" screws are going to save you, the wood is often a source of failure rather than coming unscrewed. It just splinters away.

As to Havenlock: many back doors are slide, and can be bounced out of their runs. It might help on the few which are swing doors rather than slide (at least around here). I think the whole app thing is kind of dumb, it is just a wedge, and still requires drilling into the floor.

<quote>Burglargard looks pretty cool. But I'd definitely have to re-evaluate fire exits before I installed, the last thing I'd want is for the entire family to burn to death because I was trying to save a few thousand dollars in property which is insured and replaceable.</quote>

If your fire exit strategy currently relies on the ability to break a window, you've already failed at fire safety. You need to be able to OPEN a fire exit in an emergency, not MAKE one...

And if the heat of the fire swells the wood? It's well worth being able to smash the window to get out if you have to.

In what circumstances would the wood both be heated enough for that to make a difference and you'd still be able to escape in that direction?

I.e. if the wood is being heated by fire on either side....

Mine are significantly harder to open in the fall when temps are around 50F versus the summer when temps average 75F. Older windows are probably more prone than brand new ones.

Well I think that swelling only will occur when the moisture goes up. Also I think in newer homes the windows are more fire resistance and are a lot harder to break. But I do think that if it comes to that, than do it or do what ever you have to, to get out.

"If your fire exit strategy currently relies on the ability to break a window, you've already failed at fire safety."

This is quite false. The ability to use a bedroom window as an emergency exit is required by typical US building codes (e.g., http://www.bobvila.com/articles/406-what-makes-a-room-a-bedr...).

The basic rule is that, besides the entry door, there has to be one other exit that opens to the outside, which can be another door, but is usually a window. There are size rules for the window.

The window is intended not just for entry of firefighters, but also for unassisted exit.

This is quite false.

That's not my reading of the page you linked to. The window has to be openable, not breakable.

You have a fair point.

In some older apartment buildings (eg, Portland, OR), the fire egress plan involves other residents being able to break into your apartment and exit using your external fire escape.

In these buildings, you'll see an apartment on each floor with a glass window in their door, and a heavy object hanging from a chain next to it. (It's a fun puzzle for guests -- "See that bolt hanging from the chain? See the adjustable crescent wrench on the next floor? How does that work?")

Wow, that's messed up. Might as well have a big "burglary decoy" sign above that door too. Something makes me think letting agents have trouble getting the same price for that flat...

You're supposed to open the window, not smash it.

I do some work in personal protection inside and outside of the home and there are really quite a few simple things you can do to better protect your home from a break in or home invasion.

First, make sure you have a solid wood or metal door with a deadbolt. Second, reinforce all exterior door frames with door jamb armor, a large metal plate that covers your door jamb and 3 1/2 in screws that secure it into the frame. [1]

There's quite a few other window security films on the market. 3M is probably one of the best. [2]

You'll want to look into securing your glass to the window frame so it doesn't just pop the glass out in one piece. Some windows make that easy to happen and some secure the glass in pretty well. 3M has a few attachment systems that hold the glass in the frame. One easy option is a silicone sealant called Dow Corning 995. It's an incredibly strong silicone that bonds the security film to the window frame. [3]

And finally get a gun and learn how to use it. You can tell me how much you hate guns but when a insane machete-wielding man kicks in your front door, a phone in your hand dialing 911 is not going to stop him in time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsAMSQ13bY

[1] http://armorconcepts.com/EZ-Armor/

[2] http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solu...

[3] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000L00N0Q/ref=oh_aui_searc...

> You can tell me how much you hate guns but when a insane machete-wielding man kicks in your front door...

How common of an occurrence is that for you?

This was fairly recent and might be what he was referring to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGmAUQzQJHE

For me? Not often. But home invasions are not uncommon throughout the world. I like to be prepared for events that may not happen everyday but have a high potential to be deadly if they do happen. Same reason you probably have a fire extinguisher in your house. How often does your house catch fire?

Having a fire extinguisher in my house doesn't increase my family members' chances of dying in a homicide or suicide. Having a gun does. http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full

Given machete-bearing lunatics are far less likely than depressed teenagers, perhaps your cost/benefit analysis on being prepared is lacking a few variables.

That's a pretty week study. Results indicated that gun ownership had a weak (odds ratio = 1.36) and unstable relationship with homicidal behavior: http://www.guncite.com/Kleck-Hogan.html

And the CDC disagrees with that assessment. Even as gun ownership is on the rise [1], and more people than ever are carrying concealed firearms, the number of people (raw number, mind you) accidentally killed with firearms each year continues to drop. The accident rate shows an even more marked decline. [2]

There are, according to the CDC, 308 million people in the United States. That’s 308,745,538. Of those 308 million people, only 600 were accidentally killed with a firearm. That’s a 0.000194% chance that you will be accidentally killed with a gun in any given year. According to the National Safety Council, over 12,000 people die every year simply by falling down.

But, our difference in opinions doesn't really matter here so, good luck to you. There are sheep, there are wolves and there are sheep dogs.

[1] http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142412788732368920457... [2] http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95379

> And the CDC disagrees with that assessment.

We're talking about the organization that was forbidden from spending money on firearms injury research, right?

> That’s 308,745,538. Of those 308 million people, only 600 were accidentally killed with a firearm.

Ah, clever. Take a discussion of homicide/suicide and start presenting stats on accidental deaths as if it were at all relevant.

To return to the actual point, if you have a gun in the house, it's far more likely to be used by your kid to kill themselves as you are to be confronted by a machete wielding lunatic. On a non-anedoctal level, the stats just don't work.

Your second link has nothing to do with accidental deaths, but rather with violent crime. Heck, if violent crime is dropping, that's an argument against the necessity of gun ownership. Did you paste the wrong url?

Also, this:

> There are sheep, there are wolves and there are sheep dogs.

is just fatuous.

And literally all of this won't help if you leave your house and leave a door unlocked, which is the far more likely scenario - the one time we got robbed, that was exactly what happened.

Had we not left the door unlocked, chances are people wouldn't have tried a daylight robbery.

Reasonable security measures are also an important part of computing.

This. Having an accurate threat model is very important. I was robbed once before I had a security system. Someone attempted to rob me after I had a security system, but was scared away. After I installed cameras, nobody ever tried to rob my house.

Frankly my threat model was drug addicts looking for a quick score and/or neighborhood kids up to no good. My security system had many flaws, but my threat model doesn't include a sophisticated attacker with a 1k-4k piece of jamming equipment.

How well does Burglargard hold up at the edge of the window? Sure, I can imagine it would slow down even a burglar who knows it's there, but a few hits at the edge of the window seems like it would let the burglar peel the glass (held together by the film) away from the frame?

It is definitely a possibility that your glass will pop out of the frame depending on the type of window and frame. There are a lot of other security window laminates other than burglargard. 3M makes a "safety and security film" that is the same thing and they offer a few different frame reinforcement options. One option commonly used is a silicone caulk that adheres the film to the frame to prevent the glass from being forced out in one piece.

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