Would you suggest this even for new grads looking for a first job?
I just know that commuting every day is going to be incredibly depressing but I haven't seen much in the way of remote opportunities for fresh grads.
Nope.
I've been a full-time remote worker for 6.5 years, and 1/2 time (2 days a week) for 4 years before that. During that time I've managed and hired remote workers.
The reality is remote work is not for everyone, and I think that is even more so for new grads. There is a lot of mentoring that happens early in someone's career, and that is difficult to pick up in a remote environment. I think over time the need for having that on-site mentoring decreases, but it's critical in the first 12 to 24 months.
People generally need some level of human contact, in person, to grow and form strong bonds with each other.
I think remote works great, but it only works if you get to see some people you work with sometimes.
The money the company saves can be put into a fund to bring the team together a few times a year for team building/vacation.
The details (optional? mandatory? where? who?) are per company, but I think companies should start thinking differently.
Remote all the time, in person when needed. Not in person all the time, and remote during extremes (car breaks, weather, etc.)
The people I work with are not my friends. I despise most of them. This is true for every place I've worked. It's probably true for most people here. You don't chose your co-workers. And now you're forcing me to take my vacation with these people, who I put up with every day at work.
You may be puzzled reading this. "But my company is like a family." Some companies are really like this; everyone's your friend. But if every company was like this, we wouldn't have shows like "The Office."
It's also hard to expect everyone to go on a vacation. What if your kid has to go to school? What if your spouse has a job, and has to stay home. Can you ask people to leave their family behind for a week so they can bond with their co-workers?
Then you might say "fine, just make the vacation optional." You won't be fired for not going, but when it's time for performance reviews, who's gonna have "not a team player" on their report? The one person who didn't attend.
But you make a point. We're people. We need contact. My solution? Work at a co-working space a few times a week. Work out of a library or cafe every so often. And get everyone on your team to use video conferencing.
And if your team lives in a close vicinity, it's totally reasonable to schedule some day trips.
This is where you're going wrong. Personally, who I will be working with is one of the biggest factors in deciding where to work. A great team can make a tough job fun and a terrible team can make a great job unbearable.
> Can you ask people to leave their family behind for a week so they can bond with their co-workers?
Honestly, I think if you're a 100% remote company that's a totally reasonable demand. Even just counting commute time of 1 hour a day, that's already 250 hours of additional family time that's been returned to you—more than enough to make up for a single week of "working" non-stop.
Furthermore, you have less choice over your co-workers than you think. One interview is not enough time to know whether you can be friends with someone. Especially at a huge corporation, where hundreds of people may work, and constantly move departments. And unless you're the hiring manager, you have no control who will be hired after you.
I suppose as an unmarried young man I don't really understand that. It does seem like not being able to be apart for a week is a bit of a dependency issue.
Funnily enough, I'm also a hiring manager at a small startup—so I guess I do have more control over my coworkers than most people.
Did you go to college? Or did you ever go away to camp? Didn't your parents miss you the first week you were away? Maybe you can relate to that better.
Also, If you're a hiring manager, you shouldn't be hiring people you'd like to work with. You should be hiring the best person for the job. Do you ever think you're passing on great talent because they aren't the sort of person you'd have a beer with?
Probably, but it was never a significant enough thing that it ever factored into our decisions. Then again, I'm someone who chose to attend boarding school and university halfway across the world.
> Also, If you're a hiring manager, you shouldn't be hiring people you'd like to work with. You should be hiring the best person for the job
Considering that I like to work with intelligent, kind, and motivated people I consider those mostly synonymous.
> Do you ever think you're passing on great talent because they aren't the sort of person you'd have a beer with?
Nope. Whether I'd have a beer with them isn't my test. Plenty of my favorite colleagues definitely aren't my drinking buddies. Rather, I ask myself if I'd like working with them on a daily basis and whether their presence would positively contribute to the office environment. If I suspect they'd be a negative influence, I don't see any reason to hire them—even i they're a brilliant coder.
Fortunately, that's rarely a choice. Most of the great developers I know are also fundamentally kind and humble people.
You say that plenty of your favorite colleagues definitely are not your drinking buddies. Can I presume that you also wouldn't want to go on long trips with them?
Let's say you have a favorite person that you really enjoy being with all the time, at most you'll probably manage to get 50 hrs a week in with them. Way less if you do any of the following (and more) alone: exercise, study, side projects, home renovations, reading, movies, etc..
Most people spend at least 30 hours a week with their coworkers. 3/5 ratio is insane for people you hate! How do you think that shapes your attitude, personality, etc.. and how does that impact your happiness?
My company is absolutely not like a family, it is very much so work. But, if I hated everyone, or even most of them, it wouldn't work out!
Company vacations (or whatever you want to call them) are silly (IMO) if you're already seeing those people 30+ hours a week. I don't think it is very silly if you're seeing them < 8 hrs a week.
In most workplaces, you aren't obligated to like your coworkers. Just to tolerate them, and work as a team. Making me go away with them for a week doesn't sound like a "vacation." It sounds like a ton of work. It seems you agree with me on that point, but reckon it's ok for remote workers. That's where we disagree. I don't take jobs that require me to travel, and that wouldn't change for remote work.
I should point out that even if you tolerate most of your coworkers, there's probably one you really hate. Maybe they have an annoying laugh, microwave fish in the break room, and constantly make bad jokes. Imagine taking a vacation with that person!
But hey, part of life is learning to work with people who are different than you. I hope we don't lose that as people shift into remote working situations.
Doesn't sound like the problem is with your colleagues.
It's not a vacation. Think of it as a company-specific conference. Yes, you can ask people to leave their family behind for a week (or pay for them to join you) if you tell them when offering the job.
If you want to freelance, remote work is ideal. And, if you can freelance for a 100% distributed company, you almost fit right into the culture.
The ultimate goal as a fresh grad is to learn and absorb as much information as possible, as quickly as possible, and I think that working remotely hinders that.
Also as others have suggested, it's important to find a mentor(s) when you're a new grad, and that's harder to do as a remote worker.
I've been working in Montréal for 2 years, walking 10 minutes to the office. It's only a hard commute when it's freezing/snowing. Now that I'm back in a big city and I have to take the subway for 45 minutes twice a day, I'm not depressed. Sure, I miss enjoying the sun once in a while, but at least now I have time to read.
I worked for a little less than one year at my first job before jumping ship and finding my first (and current) remote job. PM me if you have any questions.
and how difficult it was to get current job?