Comment by iamelgringo | Hacker News Reader

Comment by iamelgringo | Hacker News Reader

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Personally, what you're getting offered seems rather low, but I'm not sure. I know that living on 60k is going to be difficult in San Francisco, but you're young, and may not object to ramen noodles. Look on Craigslist.com to find out what rents are for a room in San Fran before you move out. I know that 60k might seem like a lot when you're 20, but it's really not that much out here in the Bay area.

If you really like the group of programmers, and you really want to move to the Bay, that's worth something, take that into consideration. And, there's always the "chase your dream" scenario that's worth something as well.

As to the stock options: If those are the ratio's, you're not going to be getting much if the company gets acquired. Think about it this way. If there are 3000 shares outstanding, and you get 4 shares, you own %0.13 of the company ( 4/3000). Now, whatever the company gets acquired for, you receive % 0.13 of that amount. So, if the company gets acquired for $10 million, you get $13,000. $100 million, and you get $130,000.

As an aside, there are precious few companies getting acquired for $100 million. There aren't that many acquiring companies that can afford it.

Another issue: There is a lot of competition in the Bay area as opposed to other parts of the country. There are a lot of incredibly smart people out here with several degrees and tons of experience. San Fran has some of the highest per capita Phd's in the nation. It can be a bit intimidating when your first arrive. You go from being one of the elite geeks in your small pond, to being just another techie in a huge ocean of nerds.

I've known a couple of people who came out here, and felt blown away by their own lack of education. It's easy to feel pretty inadequate. Paul Graham can write about the problems with the educational system, but Paul also has his PhD in Computer Science from Harvard. So, take that into consideration, too. He also recommends people finish their college degrees before starting their startups.

I've always been one to chase my dreams, however despite what anyone else said. If you really want it, you'll find a way to make it work.

>I know that living on 60k is going to be difficult in San Francisco, but you're young, and may not object to ramen noodles.

$60,000 a year. Let's say it's $42,000 after tax. That gives our pal $3,500 a month. $1600 gets him a very nice studio apartment without roommates and covers utilities (no fiber internet available, unfortunately). He has $1900 a month to buy food, clothing, and entertainment... this would be enough to eat three solid meals a day in mid priced restaurants. Food isn't particularly expensive in San Francisco either, it's not like New York. Doesn't sound like a bad standard of living to me in the slightest, unless I'm missing something.

hmmm... $1900 a month.

Utilities: Cell phone: $40-50 a month easy Internet access: $60 a month Other utilities? Electricity? Water? Garbage? $50-75 Food: $15 a day x 30 days a month= $450 (This is the low end. Have you been to Safeway lately?) going out to eat twice a week for one month? $20 bucks a plate = 160 Cable? $30-60 a month. or $110 a month Comcast cable/high speed bundle.

So, the total for those utilities you're looking at 700-900 a month, unless you can get some of those bundled with your place.

Transportation: Car? $100 a month in insurance on the low end. Car payment?: 300 a month (low end more for a new car) Gas? $100-150 Parking??? To have a car, you're talking a total of 500-700 a month in expenses. It'll be cheaper if you take the Muni, of course, but then you have to factor in occasional cab rides and car rentals if you want to go out of the city.

So, just in expenses, you're talking $1100 - 1800 a month. That doesn't include clothes, any bills that you have to pay like credit cards, or school loans. You will probably have to fly home once or twice a year to visit mom and go to the required family reunion. If you're like me, when you're living on your own in a large city by yourself, you go out a lot more often, and eat out a lot more than twice a week. That also doesn't include emergency expenses like parking tickets, car repairs, a new laptop once a year, World of Warcraft subscription, new IPod, etc...

You could probably manage on 60k a year, but it's going to be really tight. And, if you don't watch out, those credit card bills will start creeping up in a hurry. That's all I'm saying.

Rent usually includes wireless internet around here.

I had never seen so many access points as when I was in San Francisco. You might even get lucky and find a default password WRT-54G that will let you wirelessly flash the firmware.

60k would be doable but lean for someone with a lot of expenses. Student loans, car payment, auto insurance, gas, and medical expenses often take big chunks of income.

For a 19 yr old kid with minimal needs and few fixed expenses, 60k is fine I think. I still might recommend roommates, though you'll want to be picky. In addition to saving a ton on rent, it's nice to have people around especially when you move to a new area.

60K isn't going to make you rich, but unless you acquire a lot of bad habits, its more than enough for a single 19 year old to live off. If you're really worried, you can always find room mates on craigslist.

If this is the industry you want to be in, you're best bet is to make the move out here. The job is reasonable, and even if it doesn't work out there are a hell of a lot more opportunities.

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