Comment by trhway | Hacker News Reader

Comment by trhway | Hacker News Reader

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>Maybe the guys from the South-East really did buy their stuff at the surplus store, like Putin said.

it is surplus store not available for others :) The guy in the original article bought a vehicle which just a step from "a 7-ton piece of junk" - at least it was playing that role for many years at the military base what it was bought from. The hardware in your post's link came from a kind of "limited access surplus store" which was used at the beginning. Currently a lot of the rebels' hardware, including armored vehicles and tanks, are in very good condition and of pretty good "model year" :) - for example among the rebels' main battle tanks are pretty modern, latest version of T-72 (still, in addition to the newest T-90, used by Russia (and only by Russia, ie. it hasn't been exported) ) with all the bells and whistles (navigation/targeting hardware, reactive armor, active protection system, etc...)

Note: of course not all the hardware is that good and new. Two other main sources of the hardware are captured (and in many cases i suspect actually bought while reported as captured as many people in Ukrainian army and government are reluctant, to say the least, to fight the rebels or are just corrupt - also check out the stories about "lost" and "prepared for sale to unknown buyer" tanks at Kharkov tank factory (cool photos just to get a scale of possibilities http://thehiat.blogspot.com/2012/06/kharkov-armoured-repair-... ) :) hardware of Ukrainian army in Donetsk/Lugansk region and the hardware the Ukraine left in Crimea which was trafficked into Donetsk/Lugansk.

> for example among the rebels' main battle tanks are pretty modern, latest version of T-72 (still, in addition to the newest T-90, used by Russia (and only by Russia, ie. it hasn't been exported) )

You'd think with the hundreds and thousands of supposed Russian-only heavy equipment and tanks being reported by CNN, Ukraine, and the State Department, all maned by highly trained Spetsnaz crews, that have been rolling across the Russian boarder with dozens of Satellites orbiting above and thousands of phone cameras on the ground there would be more to the story then a few questionable pics of one or two questionable model of tanks in or or two questionable locations and times.

Two other main sources of the hardware are captured (and in many cases i suspect actually bought while reported as captured

There's a site[1] that tracks captured/destroyed tanks and other hardware based on photo and video evidence from both mainstream and social media. It's interesting to see how the hardware changes hands (sometimes more than once), but predominant flow is definitely Ukraine->Rebels.

[1]: http://lostarmour.info/spoils/

It doesn't track Russian ones? Or just doesn't show them, just Ukraine and rebel ones?

Care to explain how Ukrainian army can sold vehicles and weapons which were present only in Russian army?

I think you're wasting your time trying to convince people who don't want to see what's right in front of their nose. It's not remotely plausible that events in Crimea and Donbass could have transpired without a great deal of direct and indirect support from the Russian authorities.

It's entirely obvious by now that there are large numbers of Russian troops and military vehicles operating in Eastern Ukraine. They were fighting directly with Ukrainian forces before the ceasefire and probably still are now to a lesser extent. The other irregular forces have clearly been helped directly by Russia allowing them to operate freely on Russian territory, with manpower and training from the Russian military, and food, hardware and supplies from Russian military stocks.

Putin eventually admitted after the fact that the little green men in Crimea were Russian soldiers. Only fools would believe any claims that they're not deeply involved in what's gone on in Donbass and other parts of eastern Ukraine.

Given that Russia, Belarus and Ukraine had a joint arms industry until a few months ago, it's not surprising.

Ukraine is a large exporter of tanks, mainly to 3rd world countries - they have tanks built for export that were not available to the army until now. These export vehicles showed up over the last weeks, because the army was clearly running out off their preferred T-64, etc.

as i said, the most recent version of T-72 visible on some photos from Donetsk/Luhansk obviously came from the "exclusive surplus store" in Russia. Some, far from the all though, of the hardware from the "store" was even delivered with the Russian servicemen included :)

Belarus != Ukraine.

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