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Troubling why? Some people are dicks. I find the widespread service industry attitude that you must bend over backwards to treat them well while they're treating you like dirt quite troubling.

I can't speak for this place because I've never been there. However, I definitely wouldn't hold it against a restaurant that chose to treat customers with the same level of respect that the customers gave their serving staff.

If the restaurant is thriving in spite of its bad yelp reviews that suggests that it has a loyal customer base. That would suggest that they are doing something right.

"I find the widespread service industry attitude that you must bend over backwards to treat them well while they're treating you like dirt quite troubling."

Exactly. For an eye-opening view of what kind of shitty customer behavior restaurant and retail employees have to put up with on a daily basis, see the "Not Always Right" blog:

http://notalwaysright.com

It works for that particular restaurant because they have a local clientele and don't cater to the tourist or traveler trade. That is, like many restaurants and other small businesses they are not really dependent on the internet for traffic.

Who visits Richmond, CA except for people who know someone there? It's not Las Vegas or Orlando.

The customer desiring a person who bends over backwards is obligated to find a seller willing to bend over backwards and negotiate with that person. Demanding that a seller whose business does not include bending over backwards bend over backwards is exactly why the customer is not always right.

To put it another way, a business is equally justified in having high expectations of its customers. A successful business often requires suggesting people pursue other options. An Apple Store Genius won't replace a screen on a ten year old feature phone.

> If I'm handing over my hard earned money to a business, I do expect the business to bend over backward for me.

I find this attitude troubling and fundamentally incompatible with the entire idea of market exchange. In an mutually-agreed exchange, there is no reason a party who is giving money is inherently more entitled to special treatment from the other party beyond the express terms of the exchange. If I am giving my "hard-earned money" in to someone in exchange for the fruits of their labor (whether that's a service or a good, and whether its the direct fruit of their personal labor or that of labor that they have purchased with their "hard-earned money"), I am no more entitled to have them bend over backward for me than the reverse.

Now, admittedly, if the service I am purchasing from them is a servant-like attitude, then, sure, I am entitled to that -- that's what I am buying. But if I want some other good or service, plus a servant-like attitude, I should expect to pay extra for the extra I'm getting. And since I value my hard-earned money -- it being hard-earned and all -- I am unlikely to wish to pay the premium that makes that worthwhile except when it does something particular to enhance the value of the base good or service that it accompanies.

My mum works in a shop devoted to the marine industry.

There the mantra is, the customer is almost certainly wrong and probably needs saving from themselves before they buy something that will kill them.

They spend a lot of time telling people not to buy something and telling them to buy something else. Customers are not useful when dead, no matter how happy they were when they left.

> Customers are not useful when dead, no matter how happy they were when they left.

One of my hobbies is motorcycle racing/track days and I'm always flabbergasted about how lax organizers are about safety. I'm going to share this quote with them next time I head out.

Please do.

As an addendum, I just thought that the service industries where the customer is always right are also the first ones where you won't notice very much when the employees get swapped with robots.

This is probably why supermarkets were some of the first to cross over.

Troubling? I find it refreshing. Customers are not always right, and it's about damn time that more people acknowledge that.

> Customers are not always right, and it's about damn time that more people acknowledge that.

Yes. Weirdly enough I think it's even preferable if the service provider is more knowledgeable about what they're providing than me, the customer.

Yeah, exactly. I haven't always gotten excellent service, but I usually get at least very good service because I try to be polite to the retail staff/waiters.

The idea that you are entitled to people being completely servile towards you because you have money is incredibly repulsive to me.

> If I'm handing over my hard earned money to a business, I do expect the business to bend over backward for me.

You're a crazy person. If I go to an argentinian beef restaurant I don't expect them to bend of backwards when I demand a salt cod dish, or to give Crazy McNotastebuds a free meal because they "had" to add salt to the dish.

> You're not the only suitor for my business and I don't need to feel bad about having high expectations.

That cuts both ways, they're obviously enjoying sufficient clientele for their limited room space and serving time, you're not the only suitor for their business and they don't need to feel bad about asshole clients.

And a 5mn discussion with the average retail slave (or support, or basically anything client-facing) is sufficient to find out that asshole and crazy clients do exist in droves, and enabling them is a stupid idea.

>You're a crazy person. If I go to an argentinian beef restaurant I don't expect them to bend of backwards when I demand a salt cod dish, or to give Crazy McNotastebuds a free meal because they "had" to add salt to the dish.

If you want to read what I wrote in an extreme manner, of course you can reply to it in an extreme manner. Language is ambiguous like that. I obviously didn't mean an Australian beef restaurant should serve Cod. I meant that businesses should (and most do) whatever is reasonable to do to please customers.

PS Name calling like "crazy person" never helps an argument.

> If you want to read what I wrote in an extreme manner

I'm just reading what you wrote, nothing more and nothing less. It's not my fault if what you wrote is extreme. You're the one who agrees with "The Customer is Always Right" (note: the word here is "always", not "some times when I think they're reasonably right") and wrote "I do expect the business to bend over backward for me". Without any caveat anywhere.

> PS Name calling like "crazy person" never helps an argument.

If it's a spade, what's wrong with calling it a spade?

"The Customer is Always Right" is an expression. It's not a literal statement, as is "bend over backward." For people who weren't aware of what an expression is, I wrote another reply with my clarifications. Thanks, have a great week!

This post spurred a lot of great discussion but a lot of it hinges on a nearly literal reading of "bend over backwards." What did I mean by that? I meant that I expect

* The business to do anything reasonable in its power to make me happy. Different people have different definitions of reasonable. But most reasonable people can agree that "reasonable" does not include giving me unadvertised discounts/spending unreasonable amounts of time with me/or offering me services not usually rendered.

* Service with a smile. I'm choosing you over your competitors - be nice about it.

* Don't resent the customer. My taste might not be as good as yours. I also don't work in your industry.

And for the record - I too worked in retail.

well it's true. Assholish customers are not customers you want to keep, unless you have no choice. Especially at a restaurant. They are the kind of customer that is likely to have a anger tantrum, and cause nice customers to leave.

I used to work in retail.

I charged people with your opinions higher mark-up (effectively) by declining to give them discounts because I didn't like their entitled attitude. Sometimes I also threw them out because I just couldn't be bothered.

In general, they actually paid less (even not getting discounts) and took up more employee time than other customers, and we were better off without people like that.

I think the only people who actually tolerate them are large chain stores, and only because they can't be bothered trying to assess whether their drones are exercising good judgment.

In short: get lost, we don't need your money.

Ed: typos. Early morning. Blah.