Hacker News Reader

Comment by dbbolton | Hacker News Reader

Not necessarily. Opioids, like other euphoriants, are somewhat "stimulating" (mentally) in small doses.

I know they aren't just "trying to get high". The problem is that in order to get any psychotropic effects from Tramadol, the dose is so high that a lot of other really nasty effects will come with it. A 5mg dose of hydrocodone would accomplish the effect they are after with very little negative physical effects.

If they were just using it as an analgesic, which the article clearly indicated is not the case, it would be a different story.

View on HN

Wouldn't Tramadol be classified as a psychotropic just by virtue of it inhibiting your central nervous system?

As someone who takes Tramadol for pain, it does have an odd effect when I'm tired: I find I become less tired, as if the Tramadol is making me ignore my fatigue. Oxycodone, on the other hand, causes me to be more drowsy. This might be what the farmers are talking about.

First of all, I didn't say that Tramadol was not a psychotropic. I said it was not a potent one.

Second, the definition you are describing is a depressant, not a psychotropic.

This is not entirely true. Tramadol are often given in doses of 3x50 mg a day for pain relief. To a user with no tolerance, the most common lowest dose, i.e. 1x50 mg is certainly more than enough to give a euphoric feeling, ability to concentrate, stress relief and a whole range of other effects. Effects obviously can't be compared to "real" opiates, where the effect is much stronger and have more of a sedative effect. It should also be noted the effects vary quite a bit depending on the individual, i.e. some people don't have much of a reaction to Tramadol.

The article, and Zunger's G+ discussion as mentioned below, clearly established that they were taking very high doses.

That might be, but that's not relevant to the point of what dosage is necessary for a psychological effect.

You can't be serious. Are you advocating hydrocodone here which has one of the highest potential for debilitating addiction, so much so actually that it is banned in many countries and no longer available for medical use?

I explicitly stated that I was not advocating drug use. What I am advocating, if you would actually bother read my comments, was that the farmers' dose and dose frequency are pushing the therapeutic window (i.e. it nears toxicity). Regularly taking a therapeutic-level dose of hydrocodone would not push that window.

If you think repeatedly taking extremely high doses of Tramadol is somehow safer than small doses of hydrocodone, then you're unbelievably ignorant.

As a side note, hydrocodone is one of the least potent mu-opioid antagonists, but it is more potent than Tramadol. That is the only reason I mentioned it by name.

And I take no stock in governmental drug laws with regard to pharmacology, so your mention of it being removed from medical use in a handful of countries means nothing to me.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com