it's a given, if you read a post like this, it'll be about Thailand in some way.
just because you don’t agree with certain laws, doesnt mean you can just ignore them.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/australians-in-thailand-face-vis...
And it's actually quite difficult to do remote work or establish permanent residence legally in Thailand:
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Thai...
Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops, it's easier than most places. The crackdown is mostly aimed at migrant laborers from Cambodia and Myanmar, and at backpackers who spend their time in Thailand drinking and smoking pot.
That's an understatement if I've ever heard one.
I skimmed the linked page and this little gem jumped out:
"Some support a Thai partner and kids, perhaps their own kids, perhaps their partner's from a previous relationship. Throughout Pattaya, Isaan and the north thousands, maybe tens of thousands, fit this profile - and they could be shut out."
I dont profess to be an expert on all things Thai, but after 2 years here, that sentence tells me plenty. You could equally describe exactly the same group of foreigners with much fewer words: "retiree sexpat".
> Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops
This is absolutely true. I went through the process while the protests + failed election were going on, and the biggest hassle was departments being closed/relocated, and road closures while heading to meetings with our lawyer in BKK.
Strange that the military seems to think most of Visa runners are English teachers, though.
[1]: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Immigration-Bur...
[2]: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754033-immigration-burea...
Probably just the most visible. From what I understand, plenty of schools rely on foreign english teachers but aren't prepared to hire them legally.
I'm still not really sure why they don't go the legal route - maybe the extra effort involved, or maybe because they want to pay less than the mandated minimum salary for foreigners.
For those not familiar, minimum salary is not standard across the board in Thailand, it depends on nationality. For most "western" foreigners it's 50K THB/month, whereas for Thai citizens it's about 9K THB/month.
The laws around digital nomads, to say nothing of enforcement, have never been clear in Thailand. Bans on foreigners working in any country are intended to prevent foreigners taking jobs away from locals. Digital nomads don't do that.
As it turns out just this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand:
http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-offici...
You still need a visa, of course.
In context, you are clearly talking about working for local companies. In countries like Thailand, it's illegal to work in any way (even volunteering falls into this category in Thailand) without a valid visa and work permit.
> have never been clear in Thailand
That's disingenuous at best. Its never been "ideal" but it's always been clear - if you want to work, you need a visa + work permit. That people working "online" for foreign entities have largely slipped through the cracks is irrelevant. Speeding isn't legal or "unclear" just because you don't get caught every time.
> this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand:
Since i first started looking at the options for working in Thailand about 2 1/2 years ago (and moved here ~ 2 years ago) I've read numerous articles about these announcements from provincial immigration staff, only to have them either "clarified" to mean something different, or outright denied as being incorrect.
For a more realistic example: it is perfectly legal for a foreigner to come to Thailand on a business visa (without a work permit) for the purpose of meetings. There is even a specific 3 year (vs regular 1 year) business visa that is specifically designed for this situation (it cannot be used to get a work permit).
The "traditional" situation is evident in other things too - for a marriage visa, there is a means test ($/month income or $$ in a bank account) - the amount required is vastly more for foreign men (marrying thai women) than it is for women (marrying thai men).
In terms of a theoretical "this is intentional" answer - I don't know, because I don't actually know what the average "digital nomad" would spend large amounts of money on - I'm living basically as a resident, I haven't left the country in 9 months, we have a car, imported our dog, etc.
In Thailand pornography and sex toys and prostitution are all illegal, but visibly sold on the main tourist streets. In Thailand driving without a license will get you a small fine ($6 to $12), and a receipt to show you paid in case you get stopped in the next 24 hours. In Thailand there are numerous digital nomad get-togethers and communities and co-working spaces full of farang with their laptops, operating openly. The many language schools routinely employ part-time teachers who don't have proper visas and work permits.
As an American I've been trained to obey the law, and I understand that breaking the law leads to well-defined penalties (unless I'm a banker or a politician). Thais, on the other hand, treat the law (and road markings) as suggestions, with penalties that have flexible and often on-the-spot enforcement denominated in baht. So while you are right about what the law says, the reality of how it's interpreted and enforced are more important in Thailand.
Generalising about 70 million people as if they are all the same isn't a great way to identify as anything other than a middle-aged farrang who wants a young brown girl(s) in his bed.
If anyone wants to read more of this kind of thing there's an entire forum for know-it-all expat jerks called ThaiVisa.com.
Maybe I'm generalizing about the Thai attitude about the law, but you can observe it every day all over Thailand. It's no more a generalization than saying Thais like spicy food.
No but you suggested that they can be treated as non existent because of lax enforcement/punishment, and then go on to complain about other people (apparently an entire country at that!) not following them - if you don't agree the laws should be followed, why are you complaining about other people not following them?
> How you went from my observations of life in Thailand to calling me a sexpat says something about you
It's generally sexpats who come to Thailand for some "brown strange", make no effort to learn anything about the culture or the people, and make sweeping generalisations, exactly like you have done.
> Maybe I'm generalizing about the Thai attitude about the law, but you can observe it every day all over Thailand. It's no more a generalization than saying Thais like spicy food.
The irony here is at level: ridiculous. Have you ever met any Thai people and actually spoken to them?
Let me make it crystal clear in case you can't work it out:
Not every Thai is a bad driver
Not every Thai flaunts laws/rules
Not every Thai enjoys or can even eat spicy food
Not every Thai is just a poor brown girl/boy waiting for a "rich" white prince to make her/his life better.
Also I can't read or "work out" what smarter and better-informed people like stephenr mean, I need it spelled out, in English. I am not equipped to understand or respond to the close reading and careful parsing of language stephenr has demonstrated.
Actually I've never even been to Thailand, I made everything up. Kudos to stephenr for deducing so much from my comments and exposing me, calling me out on my delusions, and setting the record straight.
You didn't claim to have "seen this". You claimed "everyone does it". This would be like me claiming all americans insist on cheese with every meal and get confused between Austria and Australia.
> Also I can't read or "work out" what smarter and better-informed people like stephenr mean, I need it spelled out, in English
I'm commenting on your posts, and my own observations of life in Thailand. Several times you've made broad generalisations about various topics in Thailand, all of which are demonstrably false.
When I called you on said generalisation, you proceeded to make ANOTHER generalisation. How do you expect people to react to that?
It's different. You've just listed laws that the Thais do not enforce. The no-work-permit for a foreigner is a law that would be enforced should you be caught.
That was one officer in Chiang Mai and he's been corrected since.
The work he does doesn't relate to Thailand at all. Do you think if someone is going to stay in Thailand for 2 weeks and work online, they'll going to get a work visa? For what? Where's a company? People? Office? For 2 weeks? And they'll have to do the same thing for any country they go? That's bunk!
He doesn't break a law working online! unless he receives money to a Thai bank.
2) According to you, if a businessman comes to Thailand to rest for 2 weeks and decided to do some work for one day on his laptop (which he brought with him) then he'll become a criminal and can be taken to a jail.
3) According to you, millions of people break this law every day: they come from their countries to other country and once they reply or send an email (or something like that) - they are criminals!!!
Not according to me. The law says what it says. The chances of being arrested for working one day while on holiday are pretty much zero, but technically it's still a breach of the law.
Even someone who comes for a month and works every day has very little chance of being caught or even being an issue the police would be concerned about/investigating, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is legal.
You seem to somehow think that because this law is in place in Thailand, I'm suggesting it is in place elsewhere? Why? I never mentioned any country but Thailand.
2) Why not? That's exactly according to you. If not, tell me what it is that goes against your definition.
3) Because in !every country! in order to work you need a work visa unless this is your home country.
Also, and this is a big point I have to add, it's easy enough to get around with basic english here unlike China for example.
To the parent: for some (particularly either young and unattached, or middle aged/older unattached men) the attraction is likely somewhat related to what they do besides work.
> "at least a small amount or number of people or things"
Edit: furthermore, if you think that the presence of sexpats, or the way some Thai people are "attracted" to them/their wallets, is disparaging to NORMAL Thai people, you are deluded.
I don't ever remember anyone ever saying all American women are gold diggers because of Anna Nicole Smith's antics.
You caught me by surprise. I actually expected the trolling to be about my choice of a MacBook or mentioning I use vim. Live and learn.
It's well known that the parts of Thailand frequented by tourists have a much higher percentage of people who "can" speak english. By "can" I mean are technically able to, and feel confident enough to.
Why, is that populated with people who can't comprehend English too?
Please lookup the definition of the word "some".
"either young and unattached, or middle aged/older unattached men" implies either men in their late teens/early twenties or men 40+.
I guess it was too much to expect people to actually understand what words mean.